Newby here - Bristow and Sutor Bailiff fees

[saqademus]

My debts were passed on to Bristow and Sutor for unpaid council tax.

I'm a student living in a multiple occupancy house and owed £901.65.

I had arranged over the phone to pay certain amounts from October 2011.

In February 2012 I missed a payment and had a bailiff visit.

I hadn't done any research prior to this and let the bailiff in (I know, i'm stupid). It was the "If you dont let me in i'll have to come back and you'll be charged again" that got me, not knowing about walk-in-fees levy fee's etc.

I signed the obligation to pay x amounts letter.

As of now I have paid around £700 on a monthly basis.

I went online to find I owe an extra £300. After calling up to get a breakdown, it goes like this:

7/2/11 - £24.50 bailiff visit
22/3/11 - £75 visit + levy fee (when i let him in)
17/7/11 - £180 van removal fee (WTF?)

That is my main concern - £180? Is this legit? Is there anything I can do, given my current situation, to undo this fine?

Just to add to this -

I wont be able to pay the remaining £525 of the _ now 1200_ that I owe and so may incur another van removal fee.

Is there anything I can do to prevent this (apart from paying off the 525 within a few weeks).

It might be worth noting that the property is now EMPTY

P.P.S - I wasnt a student for a year, hence the tax in the first place. The notice of seizure, which ive lost, barely has anything on it. Wardrobe and hifi I think. Both of which either arent mine or broken. (student home)

Thanks

[ploddertom]

Re: Newby here - Bristow and Sutor Bailiff fees

You need to establish exactly where you are with this as the Council figures & those of the Bailiff will differ. You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:
1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you
2 - the dates they were obtained
3 - the addresses they were for
4 - the period of time each covers
5 - how much each one was for
6 - how much is still outstanding
7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement
8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

You also need to send off for a breakdown of the fees they have charged to date. Here's an example of what to send to the bailiffs, use and adapt as you see fit, send initially by email followed by a copy in the post.

"From:
My Name
My Address

To:
Acme Bailiff Co
Bailiff House

Ref: Account No: 123456

Dear Sir

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

This includes:
a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.
b - the reason for the fee.
c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.
d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.
e - the date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

I require this information within 14 days.

Yours faithfully

Ripped off customer"

It is very important you find the Notice of Seizure as the chances are the levy they have is not worth Andrex and the fees should probably be removed. If necessary ask the Bailiffs for a copy or if they then refuse the Council will have to produce it.

[Guest]

Re: Newby here - Bristow and Sutor Bailiff fees

I'm a student living in a multiple occupancy house and owed £901.65.

The law says you dont owe any council tax at all. Payment of council tax is the landlord's responsibility.

Section 2 of the Council Tax (Liability for Owners) Regulations 1992. Tenants renting rooms or do not occupy the whole dwelling are not liable for council tax.

Write to the council saying you are students in a shared house quoting the above legislation, and ask the liability order be quashed under Section 82 of the Local Government Act 2003.

If you get excuses from the council, then ask the Local Government Ombudsman to intervene.

[saqademus]

Re: Newby here - Bristow and Sutor Bailiff fees

The law says you dont owe any council tax at all. Payment of council tax is the landlord's responsibility.

Section 2 of the Council Tax (Liability for Owners) Regulations 1992. Tenants renting rooms or do not occupy the whole dwelling are not liable for council tax.

Write to the council saying you are students in a shared house quoting the above legislation, and ask the liability order be quashed under Section 82 of the Local Government Act 2003.

If you get excuses from the council, then ask the Local Government Ombudsman to intervene.

What?!!??!!

I know a lot of people that live in multiple occupancy houses (or technically, it could be a joint tenancy of the whole house as opposed to renting a room) that pay council tax.

At the time I was the only person in the house that WASN'T a student. Obviously students are exempt from council tax but I was under the impression that a non-student is liable to pay.

This is all news to me.

[saqademus]

Re: Newby here - Bristow and Sutor Bailiff fees

You need to establish exactly where you are with this as the Council figures & those of the Bailiff will differ. You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:
1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you
2 - the dates they were obtained
3 - the addresses they were for
4 - the period of time each covers
5 - how much each one was for
6 - how much is still outstanding
7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement
8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

You also need to send off for a breakdown of the fees they have charged to date. Here's an example of what to send to the bailiffs, use and adapt as you see fit, send initially by email followed by a copy in the post.

"From:
My Name
My Address

To:
Acme Bailiff Co
Bailiff House

Ref: Account No: 123456

Dear Sir

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

This includes:
a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.
b - the reason for the fee.
c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.
d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.
e - the date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

I require this information within 14 days.

Yours faithfully

Ripped off customer"

It is very important you find the Notice of Seizure as the chances are the levy they have is not worth Andrex and the fees should probably be removed. If necessary ask the Bailiffs for a copy or if they then refuse the Council will have to produce it.

Thank you for your advice and i'll send it ASAP.

The original amount I owed was £881.65.
After it was sent to Bristow I received an invoice for £901.65

As of now, after the charges, it stands at around £1200

I have paid around £700 of it and so still a further £500 remains.

These are the extra costs applied:

7/2/11 - £24.50 bailiff visit
22/3/11 - £75 visit + levy fee (when i let him in)
17/7/11 - £180 van removal fee

[saqademus]

Re: Newby here - Bristow and Sutor Bailiff fees

Can I also add - I am currently unemployed having just graduated from university, will this entitle me to be listed under "vunerable persons" ?

[Guest]

Re: Newby here - Bristow and Sutor Bailiff fees

What?!!??!!

The law changed in 2006 with the introduction of the Management of Houses in Multiple Occupation (England) Regulations 2006.


If you live in a House of Multiple Occupancy (HMO) and since 2006 the landlord is liable for the council tax on the property, not the tenants.

The law was changed because councils found it difficult tracing sharers because they don't stay in the same property long enough to establish a new permanent address for them. Enforcement was difficult because they usually dont have money or assets.

An HMO is any property where the individual tenants do not occupy the whole property, and share common areas with other tenants.

The regulations that say the tenants are not liable for the council tax on the property is Section 2 of the Council Tax (Liability for Owners) Regulations 1992. Tenants renting rooms or do not occupy the whole dwelling are not liable for council tax. Payment of council tax is the landlord's responsibility.

If you are a sharer in an HMO and you receive a bailiff, then you can use the template letter below to stop enforcement action, and reclaim any council tax that you have already paid.

You can ask the council the liability order be quashed under Section 82 of the Local Government Act 2003.

Use the template letter below and that should quickly solve the matter.

Council tax enforcements department [NAME OF] Council [ADDRESS1] [ADDRESS2] [POSTCODE] [DATE] Dear Sir. FORMAL COMPLAINT BY POST AND BY EMAIL Re: Your bailiffs and Council tax I make this formal complaint because on [DATE] I received a bailiff collecting unpaid council tax and I was forced to make over the sum of £[AMOUNT] or my goods would be confiscated. The bailiff whose name I understand is Mr. [NAME] has admitted being instructed by you. I therefore I write to make a formal complaint because I live in a House of Multiple Occupancy (an HMO) and I do not occupy the whole property. I am only a sharer of the above-named property. I understand the law was changed in 2006 with the passing of the Management of Houses in Multiple Occupation ( England ) Regulations 2006 and the introduction of Section 2 of the Council Tax (Liability for Owners) Regulations 1992 Tenants renting rooms or do not occupy the whole dwelling are not liable for council tax. COMPLAINT RESOLUTION 1. Cease enforcement action forthwith 2. Refund to me the council tax I have already paid being relating to this address being £[AMOUNT ALREADY PAID] by 10.30am on [DATE IN 14 DAYS TIME] 3. Confirm in writing the liability order is quashed under Section 82 of the Local Government Act 2003 Yours Faithfully [YOUR NAME] Enc. Tenancy contract cc [NAME AND SURNAME] MP

[Guest]

Re: Newby here - Bristow and Sutor Bailiff fees

Hi
Not familliar with this but it seems to depend on the kind of tenancy agreement, googled this;

http://wzeu.search-results.com/r?t=p...-council-tax-2

D

[Guest]

Re: Newby here - Bristow and Sutor Bailiff fees

The legislation doesn't require a tenancy agreement.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...ulation/2/made

[Guest]

Re: Newby here - Bristow and Sutor Bailiff fees

The legislation doesn't require a tenancy agreement.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...ulation/2/made

Agreement, small a.

D

[saqademus]

Re: Newby here - Bristow and Sutor Bailiff fees

Thanks for the help thus far. Argh I really wish I didn't let them in now.

I will send both of those emails - although I cant seem to find their email address anywhere?

I have signed onto jobseekers now that I've finished university - does that count towards being a "vunerable person" ?

[ploddertom]

Re: Newby here - Bristow and Sutor Bailiff fees

enquiries@bristowsutor.co.uk Can you tell us what goods they have seized exactly as described on the Notice of Seizure?

[pepsie]

Re: Newby here - Bristow and Sutor Bailiff fees

Council Tax, if it transpires it is owed is a priority debt...however this is classed as an old CT debt and not classed to be a priority, therefore in the interim period of establishing the facts by following PT's excellent advice I would suggest you make payment to an amount seen to be affordable to you and sustainable by you (equivalent to that applied on average to an attachment of benefits) direct to the Council concerned using their online payment facilities.

Should it transpire you did not owe the CT then you will be due a refund.......Bailiff fees are, as usual, a load of garbage and easily challenged, it is likely once you have the breakdown the fees will show magically to have changed.

Pepsie

[saqademus]

Re: Newby here - Bristow and Sutor Bailiff fees

Council Tax, if it transpires it is owed is a priority debt...however this is classed as an old CT debt and not classed to be a priority, therefore in the interim period of establishing the facts by following PT's excellent advice I would suggest you make payment to an amount seen to be affordable to you and sustainable by you (equivalent to that applied on average to an attachment of benefits) direct to the Council concerned using their online payment facilities.

I have already paid around £700 to the bailiffs, but you're saying I should pay the rest to the council directly?

[saqademus]

Re: Newby here - Bristow and Sutor Bailiff fees

Okay the email requesting the breakdown of charges and notice of seizure has been sent. I haven't yet sent a letter version because my printer is playing up. Lets hope they reply soon