csa bailiffs civil partnership query

[megan]

Hi, can anyone help me, my partner is in arrears with the CSA and they have set Rossendales on us, I sent the bailiffs a Notice of Ownership letter before Christmas regarding the contents of our furnished rented accomodation and also my car, which is registered in my name. We have never allowed them in the property, as advised by various people. They came yesterday and put a Bailiff Removal letter and Notice of Distress through the letterbox naming my car, with a £60.00 Levy fee and a £190.00 fee under the description of "other" We rang the bailiff this morning and he is asking for more than we can afford to pay, (it isn't that my partner doesn't want to pay, it's that we don't have the money to). My query is the bailiff told me that my Notice of Ownership isn't worth the paper it is printed on and because we are cohabiting the CSA class that whatever I own is also owned by my partner. Does anyone know if this is true, I can't afford to lose my car. Have tried to keep this as brief as possible and would welcome any advise urgently.

[Guest]

Re: csa bailiffs civil partnership query

You are not liable for your partners debts even if you are in a civil partnership.

There are no statutory bailiffs fees on unpaid child support, These are set in a contract between the CSA and its contractors, and that contract is a matter between the CSA and its contractors.

The levy on the car is not valid so the fees can be disregarded, and if the bailiff returns you can serve a declaration of ownership. Quietly take a photo using your mobile showing the bailiff standing outside your property reading it as this is proof it was served.

This needs to be sworn before a commissioner of oaths and sent by post to the bailiff and the authority instructing him.

DECLARATION OF OWNERSHIP


I [NAME OF OWNER OF GOODS] of [ADDRESS AND POSTCODE] make this statement knowing that it may be presented to a Court and believing the contents to be true

1. I am the lawful tenant of the aforementioned address and own all its contents and I declare there is no entitlement enabling anyone to change ownership, possession, location, use and enjoyment of my goods or deprive me of them for the purposes of using it as leverage for obtaining a money transfer from somebody else.

2. I further declare that any bailiff or person seeking a money transfer from somebody else including members of my household may not consider my goods property and chattels to be prima facie to be the property of, or belonging to somebody else.

3. This statement will be served on a firm of bailiffs known as [NAME] of [ADDRESS] by ordinary course of post and will be considered good service under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 as they have made a threat to convert my goods to somebody else’s use.

4. I believe that the facts given in this statement are true.

[NAME] _______________________


Date__________________________

Sworn before me:

______________________________
An officer of the Court.

[bluebottle]

Re: csa bailiffs civil partnership query

As Happy Contrails says, Megan, the bailiffs cannot seize your car as the debt lies with your partner, not you. I am a retired policeman and, in addition to the advice Happy Contrails has given, I would report this matter to the police without delay as any attempt by the bailiff to seize your vehicle would amount to Theft under Section 1, Theft Act 1968, which is an arrestable offence under Section 24/24A, Police & Criminal Evidence Act 1984. Make sue you obtain an incident log number from the police. Once they have a record, should the bailiff try to take your car, a 999 call and the incident log number being quoted should bring the police out to your home. When you ring the police, tell them that someone CLAIMING to be a bailiff is threatening to take your car and, if you have to make a 999 call, always tell the police someone CLAIMING to be a bailiff is trying to steal your car. NEVER SAY THEY ARE A BAILIFF. There are, unfortunately, scum who go around impersonating bailiffs in order to steal cars and burgle homes. There is an offence called Burglary Artifice. You may know this as Distraction Burglary. Many bailiffs either come dangerously close to committing this offence or actually committing it. Don't let them bully or intimidate you. If you know you're in the right, stand up to them. They won't like it, but the answer to that is, "Tough".

Come back onto this thread and let us know how things go.

Bluebottle

[Guest]

Re: csa bailiffs civil partnership query

Section 1 of Theft Act 1968, did you mean section 12?

Also megan, i wouldnt take too much notice what the CSA tell you they "class" what you own is owned by your partner. The CSA will lie and have been described as corrupt. Source: http://www.deadbeatdadsassociation.c...s/Page8478.htm

[bluebottle]

Re: csa bailiffs civil partnership query

Section 1 of Theft Act 1968, did you mean section 12?

Also megan, i wouldnt take too much notice what the CSA tell you they "class" what you own is owned by your partner. The CSA will lie and have been described as corrupt. Source: http://www.deadbeatdadsassociation.c...s/Page8478.htm

Section 12, Theft Act 1968 deals specifically with joyriding. In the case of a scumbag, sorry, bailiff, there is an intention to permanently deprive. Under those circumstances, it is Theft, contrary to Section 1, Theft Act 1968

[Guest]

Re: csa bailiffs civil partnership query

Come to read it, section 1 does make more sense. I stand corrected.

[megan]

Re: csa bailiffs civil partnership query

Thanks for your quick replies Happy Contrails and Bluebottle, have calmed down a bit now, I sent Rossendales a Notice of Ownership letter by registered post which they received 22/12/11, I tried a local firm of solicitors to see if they would witness it (don't know if that's the right term) but they weren't interested. I rang the police on 101 this morning to say I was worried the bailiff was going to steal my car but they said they wouldn't get involved unless the bailiff or myself were causing a breach of the peace. I'm not happy that the car is outside my house and I'm 10 miles away at work, I can't move it as the clutch gasket went in October and I haven't been able to afford to repair it. We have spoken to a suprisingly nice lady at the CSA to confirm if the bailiff was lying about being able to remove it and she said if I have proof (which I have) that I own the car he has no right at all to touch it, she also let slip that if the bailiffs got nowhere with us the case would be referred to them. Our dilema now is, do we, 1. do as the bailiff wants, pay £250.00 next week and £100.00 monthly thereafter, because of our circumstances we cannot guarantee we will not default on it or, 2. go for N245 application for suspension of warrant £40.00 or, 3. stick it out and hope it goes back to the CSA anyway. The amount owed is £1700.00 and is not ongoing as the children are now 21 and 19. Sorry if this is long winded.

[bluebottle]

Re: csa bailiffs civil partnership query

Thanks for your quick replies Happy Contrails and Bluebottle, have calmed down a bit now, I sent Rossendales a Notice of Ownership letter by registered post which they received 22/12/11, I tried a local firm of solicitors to see if they would witness it (don't know if that's the right term) but they weren't interested. I rang the police on 101 this morning to say I was worried the bailiff was going to steal my car but they said they wouldn't get involved unless the bailiff or myself were causing a breach of the peace. I'm not happy that the car is outside my house and I'm 10 miles away at work, I can't move it as the clutch gasket went in October and I haven't been able to afford to repair it. We have spoken to a suprisingly nice lady at the CSA to confirm if the bailiff was lying about being able to remove it and she said if I have proof (which I have) that I own the car he has no right at all to touch it, she also let slip that if the bailiffs got nowhere with us the case would be referred to them. Our dilema now is, do we, 1. do as the bailiff wants, pay £250.00 next week and £100.00 monthly thereafter, because of our circumstances we cannot guarantee we will not default on it or, 2. go for N245 application for suspension of warrant £40.00 or, 3. stick it out and hope it goes back to the CSA anyway. The amount owed is £1700.00 and is not ongoing as the children are now 21 and 19. Sorry if this is long winded.

The answer you got from the police was a typical "Don't want to get involved" answer. What you were told is correct insofar as you and the bailiff thumping seven buckets of excrement out of each other, but, strictly speaking, if a crime is committed, the police have a duty to investigate and proceed if necessary. The police's attitude has a lot to do with ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) who regard bailiff disputes as civil matters. However, this flies in the face in of national guidelines for police officers called to deal with bailiff matters which clearly states they should consider arrest if offences are committed by a bailiff.

Personally, I would go back to your local police, at the police station, and make a complaint against the bailiff firm on a Witness Statement form. Be persistent and don't be fobbed off. If necessary, ask to speak to the Duty Officer (usually an Inspector) or, if that doesn't produce results, the Superintendent in charge of the station.

[Guest]

Re: csa bailiffs civil partnership query

If you pay the bailiff any money, you will never see it again, he will screw you over with his fees. The only way to get them back is reclaiming them in the county court.

Deal with the CSA and get it resolved. If the assessment is wrong, then contact ICE. http://www.ind-case-exam.org.uk/ I had a mate of mine with a CSA gripe, a fellow pilot, and he won a 31K windfall. The CSA had been screwing him over a number of years until his accountant discovered an irregularity, and made the CSA put it all back.

[megan]

Re: csa bailiffs civil partnership query

Don't know if we have a case with ICE, it's possible because when he was taken to court in may 2009 the CSA agreed he had been overpaying as they had worked the figures out on 3 year old P60's which didn't give a true reflection of what he then earned, they have since changed the amount but said although they could back date it they wouldn't! the judge wasn't interested in anything my partner had to say, felt so unfair that we had been so honest in the interview prior to going into the court, then coming out afterwards listening to other people waiting to go in being so blatanty dishonest saying they had money salted away and had no intention of paying a penny! What do you think about N245 form? I only have access to the internet at work so any advise before 5.30 would be helpful as he wants to go to the court tomorrow am before work.

[Guest]

Re: csa bailiffs civil partnership query

Don't know if we have a case with ICE, it's possible because when he was taken to court in may 2009 the CSA agreed he had been overpaying as they had worked the figures out on 3 year old P60's which didn't give a true reflection of what he then earned, they have since changed the amount but said although they could back date it they wouldn't! the judge wasn't interested in anything my partner had to say, felt so unfair

That sounds like a liability order hearing. The reason why the judge wasnt interested was because of section 33(4) of the Child Support Act 1991. See also Wikipedia Kangaroo Court: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo_court

Your only recourse is ICE. You never know, the CSA might be owing your partner lots of money. Collate your evidence, P60s and get a record of all payments made.

that we had been so honest in the interview prior to going into the court, then coming out afterwards listening to other people waiting to go in being so blatanty dishonest saying they had money salted away and had no intention of paying a penny What do you think about N245 form?

N245 will not work with CSA because you cannot revoke a liability order on the grounds the assessment is wrong. You need to have the case reassessed, then have the CSA change the amount on the Liability order.

I only have access to the internet at work so any advise before 5.30 would be helpful as he wants to go to the court tomorrow am before work.

If he goes to court he will be told to contact the CSA because he cannot apply to quash a liability order. No point in turning up, and if her does, the CSA will use that as the NRPs acknowkledgement of the liability.

Only the CSA can quash a liability order - after you have got them (or ICE does it for them) to correct the assessment.

[megan]

Re: csa bailiffs civil partnership query

It is a Liability Order, we have filled an N245 previously on advice from Durham Legal Services when the CSA handed it over to Marstons to recover arrears of £5000.00. We assumed the warrant had been suspended as we heard nothing more from them and it went back to the CSA, now confused.

[Guest]

Re: csa bailiffs civil partnership query

That looks like the N245 was used to suspend enforcement action, but it doesnt need an N245, the CSA can suspend enforcment action by giving a direction to the bailiff.

It looks like the enforcement action has been re-instated. You do need to get your case to ICE because (I think) that will suspend enforcment action while ICE is looking at your case. Your original post does indicate the CSA has over charged you.

[Milo]

Re: csa bailiffs civil partnership query

Megan,

You may want to ask the question of Rossendale as to why they are charging a fee of £190 !!

The Contract for the enforcement of unpaid CSA arrears had previously been with Marston Group and, on 1st November was granted to Rossendales.

Almost certainly, the bailiff is "attempting" to charge you an "attending to remove fee". There is no legal basis for the charging of such a fees.

The fees that can be charge for the enforcment of CSA arrears are mimimum. There is NO ATR fee allowed.

[Guest]

Re: csa bailiffs civil partnership query

There is nothing in the Chiod Support Act or its amendments that says the OP is liable for ANY bailiffs fees. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/all?ti...T%20ACT%201991

If a bailiff tells you therwise then its fraud. He needs a costs order from the magistrate.