Council Tax - Admin Fee

[Swingletree]

Hi, I'm seeking information on the meaning of "Admin Fee Section H or Admin Fee Schedule 5 Head H" which is shown on Bailiffs records.

Is someone able to tell me what this is in 'non-legal' speak, please.

On TWO liability orders for Council Tax I have a number of Bailiffs Records associated with the same orders. However looking at the dates I'm not sure it is correct to add this 'admin fee'. VAT to be added to all shown below

01/08/2007 - WP £12
01/08/2007 - Levy £40
01/08/2007 - Visit 2 £18
01/08/2007 - Admin fee Section H £24.50

21/12/2007 - WP £12
21/12/12/2007 - Levy £26
21/12/2007 - Visit 2 £18
21/12/2007 - Admin fee Section H £24.50

29/3/2010 - Visit fee 2 £0
17/5/2010 - WP £12
17/5/2010 - Levy Fee £27
17/5/2010 - Sch 5 Head H £24.50

There are ongoing other issues with the same bailiffs records and I need to be sure of the facts before taking the problems to both the council & baliffs

Thanks in anticipation

[Amy]

Re: Council Tax - Admin Fee

This charge is fast becoming another standard fee applied regardless of whether or not it should be and whether or not the circumstances allow it.

Schedule 5 of The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations states (H) where no sale takes place by reason of payment or tender in the circumstances referred to in Regulation 45(4) - either (i) £24.50 or (ii) the actual costs incurred to a maximum of 5% of the amount in respect of which the liability order was made.

Have they levied on goods? Is there a valid walking possession order in place?

Have you read our bailiff guide yet? If not you should do and you can find it here Bailiff Guide - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

Also, have they actually written or otherwise conveyed to you that they are applying VAT?

[Swingletree]

Re: Council Tax - Admin Fee

This charge is fast becoming another standard fee applied regardless of whether or not it should be and whether or not the circumstances allow it.

Schedule 5 of The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations states (H) where no sale takes place by reason of payment or tender in the circumstances referred to in Regulation 45(4) - either (i) £24.50 or (ii) the actual costs incurred to a maximum of 5% of the amount in respect of which the liability order was made.

Have they levied on goods? Is there a valid walking possession order in place?

Have you read our bailiff guide yet? If not you should do and you can find it here Bailiff Guide - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

Also, have they actually written or otherwise conveyed to you that they are applying VAT?

The Baliffs Records that I have have all been marked as 'successful' and therefore VAT has been applied.

As you can see that there are three sets of charges whilst there only being two liability orders in place. I am trying to clarify the situation

I have read the bailiffs Guide but I could not find anything about this Section head H charges, which I still looking for a 'non legal speak' explanation. Thank you for your input

[wiccaqueen]

Re: Council Tax - Admin Fee

A hedder H fee is charged when goods are removed then the debt including fees are paid before the sale of the goods takes place

(4) Where an authority has seized goods of the debtor in pursuance of the distress, but before sale of those goods the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount, the sale shall not be proceeded with and the goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor.


and just to make you aware a bailiff cant charge a 2nd visit fee and a levy fee on the same day its either one or the other
A walking possession fee can only be charged if the walking possession agreement is signed

do you know what goods were levied

If there are only 2 liability orders there can only be 2 sets of bailiffs fees

[Swingletree]

Re: Council Tax - Admin Fee

Thank you for replies, so far and with the grateful help of the Forum. I have now established that;

Bailiffs Debit Card Fees Charged = Fraud

No goods were removed so No Sect H fees should be charged = Fraud

Three sets of Bailiffs Charges when only two Liability Orders were in place = Maladministration or Fraud or both?

Now I need to establish my next line of complaint, the Police, the bailiffs, the council, a solicitor.

Which one first?

Thank you for your assistance, it is appreciated.

[wiccaqueen]

Re: Council Tax - Admin Fee

As you can see that there are three sets of charges whilst there only being two liability orders in place. I am trying to clarify the situation






A. For making a visit to premises with a view to levying distress (whether the levy is made or not):
B. For levying distress:

(2) Where a charge has arisen under head B with respect to an amount, no further charge may be aggregated under heads A or B in respect of that amount.

[Amy]

Re: Council Tax - Admin Fee

How much council tax, if any, is outstanding?

Who are the bailiffs and have you checked out his certification?

[wiccaqueen]

Re: Council Tax - Admin Fee

Thank you for replies, so far and with the grateful help of the Forum. I have now established that;

Bailiffs Debit Card Fees Charged = Fraud

No goods were removed so No Sect H fees should be charged = Fraud

Three sets of Bailiffs Charges when only two Liability Orders were in place = Maladministration or Fraud or both?
you forgot a 2nd visit fee and a levy fee cant be charged on the same visit


Now I need to establish my next line of complaint, the Police, the bailiffs, the council, a solicitor.

Which one first?

Thank you for your assistance, it is appreciated.

A formal complaint should be sent to the CEO (chief executive officer) of the council concerned and the bailiff company (recorded delivery )
you should also ask the council and bailiff firm for a copy of there complaints procedure

the council have 12 weeks to resolve the complaint if you are not happy with the councils FINAL reply to your complaint you then proceed to the local government ombudsman

[wiccaqueen]

Re: Council Tax - Admin Fee

i would be interested to know if the Levy's are lawful

as in
there are no goods levied that are on HP/finance
there are no goods levied that are exempt
the goods levied have an auction value
the goods levied would cover all bailiff fees, removal fees ,storage fees auction fees,and a portion of the actual debt

[Swingletree]

Re: Council Tax - Admin Fee

Thank you for replies, so far and with the grateful help of the Forum. I have now established that;

Bailiffs Debit Card Fees Charged = Fraud

No goods were removed so No Sect H fees should be charged = Fraud

Three sets of Bailiffs Charges when only two Liability Orders were in place = Maladministration or Fraud or both?

Now I need to establish my next line of complaint, the Police, the bailiffs, the council, a solicitor.

Which one first?

Thank you for your assistance, it is appreciated.

I guess that I shall also have to inform HM Customs & Revenues as VAT has been raised on 'illegal' fees

[outlawlgo]

Re: Council Tax - Admin Fee

A hedder H fee is charged when goods are removed then the debt including fees are paid before the sale of the goods takes place

(4) Where an authority has seized goods of the debtor in pursuance of the distress, but before sale of those goods the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount, the sale shall not be proceeded with and the goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor.

There could be some ambiguity here.

The above quoted from regulation 45(4) of Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 does not state the goods have to be removed i.e. Where an authority has seized goods, though it implies they have been removed i.e. the goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor.

This may need clarification, if for example a vehicle has been levied/seized.

The schedule head H fee was first introduced as an amendment i.e. SI 1993/773, the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 1993, where the description for this fee was as follows:

"Reasonable costs and fees incurred in respect of advertising"

Further amendments have reworded this to the following:

Either—
(i) £24.50, or
(ii) the actual costs incurred, to a maximum of 5 per cent. of the amount in respect of which the liability order was made, whichever is the greater.

[Swingletree]

Re: Council Tax - Admin Fee

How much council tax, if any, is outstanding?

Who are the bailiffs and have you checked out his certification?

No Council tax is outstanding at this date.

I started to check certification and the first one I checked, the first name initial was not the same as the given surname that was given on the web site that I was using to check. So whether it is two people with different first name intials and same surnames I don't know. I will need to check back on the records for the other bailiffs. Thank you for making this suggestion.

[wiccaqueen]

Re: Council Tax - Admin Fee

There could be some ambiguity here.

The above quoted from regulation 45(4) of Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 does not state the goods have to be removed i.e. Where an authority has seized goods, though it implies they have been removed i.e. the goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor.

This may need clarification, if for example a vehicle has been levied/seized.

The schedule head H fee was first introduced as an amendment i.e. SI 1993/773, the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 1993, where the description for this fee was as follows:

"Reasonable costs and fees incurred in respect of advertising"

Further amendments have reworded this to the following:

Either—
(i) £24.50, or
(ii) the actual costs incurred, to a maximum of 5 per cent. of the amount in respect of which the liability order was made, whichever is the greater.

agree there could be ambiguity here

however a walking possession leaves the goods with the debtor
A hedder H fee under regulation 45(4)implies the goods have been removed as the goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor.

[outlawlgo]

Re: Council Tax - Admin Fee

This is no help as such but highlights that even the councils are unclear of the sched 5 head H's validity read ref 7 on the last page of this link.

Ref 7, Policy and Legislation

In Revenues and Benefit bailiffs were taking a ''Header H'' fee (£24.50) following levying distress and undertaking a walking possession. This was to allow for the collection of goods by the debtor even though the goods had not been physically removed from the debtor's property. The law is unclear………….

[Amy]

Re: Council Tax - Admin Fee

Since no council tax is outstanding, then I believe you should send the SAR to the bailiffs, await the results and send a letter of complaint to your council.

It will be very interesting to see if they have actually applied VAT.