Lowell chasing a disputed debt.

[Janet6]

Hi, I thought I'd ask for a bit of advice... Back in 2013, my daughter cancelled a mobile contract over the phone. The mobile was originally registered to me, although she paid it from her account. We thought it was cancelled and done, but the company started chasing me for monthly payments. I disputed it because we have proof that customer services did cancel the contract and gave her a PAC code, which they say could not have been given. I have continued disputing it since then.


The mobile company have sicced three different debt collection agencies on us; Lowell has been sniffing around for over a year. Last month and this, I got their 'pre-legal assessment' letter, after many offers of discounts and a final settlement figure they seem to have conjured up from thin air.


I have ignored all of Lowell's letters as I was advised to reply would mean acceptance of the debt. Recently I came across something that suggested I could declare the debt cancelled because it's been four years since the original dispute started.


Any advice how to proceed??

[Kati]

Re: Lowell chasing a disputed debt.

Hi [MENTION=105499]Janet6[/MENTION] ... I'll tag [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] [MENTION=98117]warwick65[/MENTION] [MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION] for you xx

[Amethyst]

Re: Lowell chasing a disputed debt.

Recently I came across something that suggested I could declare the debt cancelled because it's been four years since the original dispute started.

interesting, that isn't something I have heard of though I'm afraid. Six years maybe if there's been no acknowledgement or payment on the debt ( Limitations Act 1980 s 5 ) - 5 years in Scotland. But 4 years is a new one on me.

So she cancelled the contract and they gave her the PAC code so she could keep her number and move to a different network/provider. Does she have any evidence that she did indeed keep her number and have a contract or PAYG with another company ?

Do you know what the original contract was - how long it was for etc ? ( When was the contract started ?)

I think a call to the original provider ( who was it btw ? ) to ask some questions might help, if they won't help then a || Subject Access Request Letter might get the information you need.

Have you written back to Lowell as yet telling them you have been disputing the debt and asking for a copy of the original contract, and details of the amount they are claiming, informing them it was cancelled ? If not I'd do that too.

[EXC]

Re: Lowell chasing a disputed debt.

I have ignored all of Lowell's letters as I was advised to reply would mean acceptance of the debt.

Asking questions about and requesting information on an alleged debt isn't accepting/acknowledging it, so I'd do what Amethyst suggested, ie:

Have you written back to Lowell as yet telling them you have been disputing the debt and asking for a copy of the original contract, and details of the amount they are claiming, informing them it was cancelled ? If not I'd do that too.

[Amethyst]

Re: Lowell chasing a disputed debt.

You can put " I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY " at the top of the letter.

There is a prove it letter about these parts somewhere... ummm [MENTION=98117]warwick65[/MENTION] ? I can never find it.

[warwick65]

Re: Lowell chasing a disputed debt.

Hi [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION]
I am not sure if I have a prove it letter anywhere but if not I will 'acquire' one for you

[warwick65]

Re: Lowell chasing a disputed debt.

There, found one in my archive. Quite appropriate if it is going to Leeds

It is a little old ( from sometime in 2014 after CONC was published and I have removed references to specific sections (2.2,2.3,2.6) as they may not be relevant. I have also replaced Trading standards with FOS as that seems more relevant these days

Dear Sirs,
Reference: 123456789
You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself. I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to {INSERT CREDITOR NAME}.
I am familiar with the CPUTR 2008 and the FCA's general principles for credit-related regulated activities,which clarifies how you ought to be treating alleged debtors. It is quite unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.
I would also point out that the FCA's CONC Guidelines state that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable, and in not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive and unfair methods. Furthermore ignoring and disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical & psychological harassment.
I would ask that no further contact be made unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question and I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed; alternatively I will have no option but to make a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service and also inform the Financial Conduct Authority of your actions.
Yours faithfully,

[Kati]

Re: Lowell chasing a disputed debt.

You can put " I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY " at the top of the letter.

There is a prove it letter about these parts somewhere... ummm @warwick65 ? I can never find it.

would something like this work Ame??

Dear Sir/Madam

Account No: XXXXXXXXX
Ref: XXXXXXXXX

Your company have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself.

I would point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to XXXXXXXXXXX. I am familiar with the Consumer Credit sourcebook of the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) which states the following rules.

"A firm must not ignore or disregard a customer's claim that a debt has been settled or is disputed and must not continue to make demands for payment without providing clear justification and/or evidence as to why the customer's claim is not valid." 7.5.3

"A firm must suspend any steps it takes or its agent takes in the recovery of a debt from a customer where the customer disputes the debt on valid grounds or what may be valid grounds." 7.14.1

"Where a customer disputes a debt on valid grounds or what may be valid grounds, the firm must investigate the dispute and provide details of the debt to the customer in a timely manner." 7.14.3


I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above accounts unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question.

Yours faithfully

(I posted it back in 2014 so it might be a bit out of date)

- - - Updated - - -

grr ... beat me to it [MENTION=98117]warwick65[/MENTION] xx

[Amethyst]

Re: Lowell chasing a disputed debt.

Thanks Warwick, thought you might have one I'm not sure about the third party and physical/ physiological harassment ? Lol - As a first response back to Lowell might be a bit heavy... so is that what people mean when they say they sent a " prove it letter" ? I know it sounds odd, but I've never really worked that out. I'd just write and explain that it's disputed and could they send me docs or otherwise tell me why they think the debts owed, and prob that if they bring court action it will be strongly defended.

[Amethyst]

Re: Lowell chasing a disputed debt.

Thanks Kati xx That seems a bit lighter.
I know we've got guidance on replying to preaction letters but maybe we can get together a few example letters for people to work from in the library.
[MENTION=105499]Janet6[/MENTION] sorry for going a little off topic there but hopefully gives you some ideas on responding to Lowell xx

[Janet6]

Re: Lowell chasing a disputed debt.

Wow, overwhelmed with information! In a good way... I apologise for the four years mistake - menopause brain. I'm in Scotland so it would be 5 years.

Yes, she got the PAC code and verified it with the company she moved to (Virgin). I have a copy of the email they sent confirming the actual code. I sent this, plus a very detailed letter with dates etc to the original provider (Orange/EE). I still have copies.
The first debt agency basically said that was good enough for them... the debt got passed to another two before ending up with Lowell. There's no use calling the original provider, they totally ignored my letters.
I've not written to Lowell.

[warwick65]

Re: Lowell chasing a disputed debt.

[MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION]
It seems that all the prove it letters that are around contain similar content, some a little more aggressive than others. It is I think about pitching it at the right level.

When my ex died I made up a much less aggressive one just saying Mrx x died on xxxxxx. As her next of kin I am assessing her assets and liabilities and would be grateful if you could send me copies of any agreements she had with yourselves.

It is all about using a template as a template and reading it through, personally I have to read everything in printed form with funny glasses and even then I miss the obvious
[MENTION=105499]Janet6[/MENTION]

I would maybe use both templates and combine the bits you like to concoct a letter, maybe adding something about the circumstances.

If it helps, I have so many pre legal assessment letters from various DCA's of different quality , time to take real action is when you get a letter of claim ( also called a letter before action)

[Janet6]

Re: Lowell chasing a disputed debt.

Sorry, my memory isn't what it was... I'm in Scotland, so it would be 5 years.

I have a copy of the email she got from the new company (Virgin), confirming the actual PAC code she was given to transfer her number.
I can't recall the length of the original contract at the moment... need to dig out the papers again... but I think it was a yearly contract after the initial two-year one had expired. That would be from 2010-2012.
There's no use calling the original provider (Orange/EE), as they flat out refuse to believe the operator said what he did and they didn't respond to a request for copies of the conversation - say they don't exist. Well, she certainly didn't make it up!
This has been handed on through three agencies...
I've not written to Lowell but I will do so, thanks.

[Janet6]

Re: Lowell chasing a disputed debt.

Oops, I thought I'd edit my first reply and then it seemed to have disappeared... I always have problems with this style of forum! Apologies for the re-post. Thanks for all the help. I will combine the templates and fire off a letter to them. I really am fed-up with the whole thing but it's become a matter of principle now! I have a crap credit rating, but that stops me being tempted by credit cards

[Kati]

Re: Lowell chasing a disputed debt.

Oops, I thought I'd edit my first reply and then it seemed to have disappeared... I always have problems with this style of forum! Apologies for the re-post.

no worries at all (I was probably a lot worse when I first joined LB lol ) xx