Car Finance - Legal Duties of Dealer as Finance Broker

[EwanHusarmee]

I bought a car well over 2 years ago on hp. The advertised price and its value was £4590 but with a 3 year warranty and service deal I ended up financing £5000.00 to buy it. Obviously from day 1 there was negative equity. On the finance proposal the value was given as £5000.00 and no mention of the rest of the deal was made. Is this legal and if not who is liable? I am looking at Voluntary Termination shortly, having nearly paid 50% and have a settlement figure of £3000 on a car with a trade in value of less than £1000.

[Amethyst]

Re: Car Finance - Legal Duties of Dealer as Finance Broker

Any chance of a scan of the agreement ? It has to have a breakdown if that £5000 isn't just the price of the car.

[EwanHusarmee]

Re: Car Finance - Legal Duties of Dealer as Finance Broker

Any chance of a scan of the agreement ? It has to have a breakdown if that £5000 isn't just the price of the car.

Thankyou for you interest.

As you can see (image.jpg) no breakdown, no mention of my PX value and other deposit paid (Total £1155.00) on the Credit Agreement, but all laid out on the invoice (image(2).jpg)

The original illustration they gave me had the warranty etc included in £4600 price it so I was paying about £3600 over three years, which probably was the salesmen covering up overselling rather than anything malicious, but given they were told I do over 20,000 miles a year, a five year deal was never going to be suitable. When I arrived to pick up the car they told me that the original offer was not available because of me credit history and put the new paper work under my nose to be signed. Having said that, I am sure I have had at least £1600 worth of work off them on warranty issues, services and MOTs, so it has not been a bad deal for me.

[Amethyst]

What the heck is a "second hand margin scheme supply" ? ... having read anyway.


ahhh (ish ) https://www.gov.uk/government/public...other-vehicles

Can you do the other 2 pages of that pls xx ( should be the terms )

What's LAW DATA 36 months cover? Ahh the warranty? http://lawdata.co.uk/design/warranties/

[EwanHusarmee]

Re: Car Finance - Legal Duties of Dealer as Finance Broker

Pages 2 & 3 seemed quite boilerplate (I did do a whole term of contract law at college 30 years ago, so I should know), but I was pleased to see the VT para on P2. Anyway, as attached....

[Amethyst]

Re: Car Finance - Legal Duties of Dealer as Finance Broker

Thank you.

I think the credit is mistated on the first page of the agreement ( ie the cash price just isn't 5000 at all and there's no deposit or p/ex amount, or warranty listed ) just checking stuff though see what the consequences of that are.

(just maths thinking so ignore) Total loan 7755 so 50% is 3877 - and you've already paid £920 p/ex and £235 which should take it down to needing to have paid 2772 which would be about 22 months payments.

[Amethyst]

Re: Car Finance - Legal Duties of Dealer as Finance Broker

Have you removed yours and their signature off of that document ?

[EwanHusarmee]

Re: Car Finance - Legal Duties of Dealer as Finance Broker

I'm happy to go with the 50% figure on the contract as its only one payment away and I don't intend to VT until September. If I argued that, it would make the possibility that there would be awkwardness with the VT greater anyway. Just looking to CMA in case they remember me complaining about the deal to them when I first worked out that the dealer had pulled a fast one. If MotoNovo have a cause of action against CarTime, I would be happy to drop them in it if there was no consequence for me.

- - - Updated - - -

No it was the only copy I got

[EwanHusarmee]

Re: Car Finance - Legal Duties of Dealer as Finance Broker

I was reminded that the finance company e-mailed me a copy of my signature at the time of my original complaint- different form entirely

[EwanHusarmee]

Re: Car Finance - Legal Duties of Dealer as Finance Broker

I did find a copy of the above in the pack afterall

[Amethyst]

Re: Car Finance - Legal Duties of Dealer as Finance Broker

hmmm okay. Those copies you have are they the originals you took away with you and you left the signed copy with them for execution ? Or have they sent those to you?

Do you recall questionning why the p/ex and £235 weren't mentioned?

I'm looking at whether the credit is misstated ( and thus the agreement unenforceable ) but I'm not entirely sure if the warranty is class as insurance, or if the deposit and p/ex would be classed of part of the cash price paid for the goods.... so bear with me a bit xx

If you over pay your 50% you don't get anything back - although if you mean paying August then terminating before Sept is due you should be fine, if you're happy to have paid £5032 to have borrowed a car for 3 years of course.( 3877 plus the deposit plus the p/ex )

[EwanHusarmee]

Re: Car Finance - Legal Duties of Dealer as Finance Broker

When you put it like that £5k for 2 years 10 months does seem like a scam. But I will have done over 55k miles and had 2 services, 2 MOTs, and at least £1000 of warranty work in that time, so it is not entirely horrendous.

Everything I have attached apart from the copy of the fax with the highlighter added by the finance co, was in the pack they handed me with the key for the car. As I said above, this was not the original deal which was something like £115 a month over 3 years. When they said the only deal available was £125.00 I was not too upset and did not spot the actual details. Part of it was they were paying book price for my PX which was actually about to conc out, so I thought I was getting one over on them.

I do not even recall if I signed anything other than that doc that got faxed. I did not start questioning anything until I got a statement from MotoNovo, I talked to them about it and they just said "well you signed it, nothing to do with us, look here's your signature on the document" and the dealership just blanked me, so after dismissing the idea of fire bombing the dealer's lot, I just sat and stewed about it until a salesperson from the dealer called to try to upgrade me. On finding me angry and with negative equity in the car, she introduced me to the right to VT the agreement.

Incidentally, I have been searching through the forums for cases where people have offered to buy the car off the finance company after they have VT'd it. Given its still got some warranty on it and I know and have faith in the car and have paid for a tow bar, I would happily pay whatever Moto are likely to get for the car selling it at auction, plus a small premium. Any thoughts?

[Amethyst]

Re: Car Finance - Legal Duties of Dealer as Finance Broker

Hmm did you get anything in writing on the original deal - did it go up cause of the addition of the warranty ? was the warranty compulsory ? or did they explain it as a higher % rate, or other insurances maybe ?


Maths again .... not my strong point but hopefully you get where I'm thinking....
Quite at big difference 115 over 36 months (4140) and 125 over 59 months (7375).( Diff over 3k )

3485 ( car price less p/ex less deposit ) plus 36 months interest is 3982 plus 349 admin = 4331 ( guess admin would have been less on lower amount Loan so might account for diff to 4140)

[Kati]

Re: Car Finance - Legal Duties of Dealer as Finance Broker

Hmm did you get anything in writing on the original deal - did it go up cause of the addition of the warranty ? was the warranty compulsory ? or did they explain it as a higher % rate, or other insurances maybe ?


Maths again .... not my strong point but hopefully you get where I'm thinking....
Quite at big difference 115 over 36 months (4140) and 125 over 59 months (7375).( Diff over 3k )

3485 ( car price less p/ex less deposit ) plus 36 months interest is 3982 plus 349 admin = 4331 ( guess admin would have been less on lower amount Loan so might account for diff to 4140)

115 x 36 = 4140
125 x 59= 7375

7375 - 4140 = 3235

[EwanHusarmee]

Re: Car Finance - Legal Duties of Dealer as Finance Broker

Nothing in writing. I have a strong memory of discussing the deal with my wife and comparing it to the recent deal she had done for her Hyundai. I understood the warranty to be included in the £4590 advertised price, which I was more than happy with. The cost of the warranty on its own was never raised. But as I have no evidence that I was conned, I gave up trying to undo it. I would be delighted if you believe there is a fool proof way of getting this corrected, but I am really only hoping for an answer to my original question " Is this legal and if not who is liable? " with a view to preventing any possible obstacles to Voluntarily Terminating the hp.