Voluntary Termination & GAP insurance

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination & GAP insurance

I think we need to properly see the terms and conditions of the Agreement to understand, I think I understand but it seems you are getting a bit confused.

The 'premium' is what des8 was referring to about the insurance in post #10.

So if the GAP insurance and credit for the car is added together as the total amount payable then you do not need to pay in addition to the amount which is outstanding to make up the 50%.

based on your payments made to date is the term of the agreement 48 months or thereabouts?

To give you an example, if it is based on 48 months you divide the total amount of GAP which is £445.09 / 48 = £9.27 * Months left of the contract = £250.29 rebate less the £24 admin. It sounds like your calculations are along the right lines just double check your figures.

Then because of your rebate of the GAP, you can offset that amount against the £546.9 outstanding which makes £296.61 and that is what you should really owe to make up the 50%.

Does that make sense to you now?

[des8]

Re: Voluntary Termination & GAP insurance

Basically in agreement with R0b, but I believe the GAP premium was £399.
This appears to have been set up as a loan with £46.09 added as admin charges or interest up front (?).

IMO you should get a prorata of £399 returned (less admin charge) plus a return of some portion of the added interest.

[Groundednearthed]

Re: Voluntary Termination & GAP insurance

Hi R0b

Yes that makes sense.

Im sure this is made confusing on purpose and the language in their letter is confusing too.

Thanks for your help up to now

Lorraine

- - - Updated - - -

Hi des8

Ok I am beginning to get it now, maths is not my strength as you can probably tell.

You are right they have done the GAP as a loan and charged interest.

I will work out my figures and then contact them advising that this is what i shall pay.

[Groundednearthed]

Re: Voluntary Termination & GAP insurance

Hi R0b Hi des8

So I did all my own calculations as I had no response from Citroen finance and I sent following email:
Following receipt of your letter dated 23/6/16 I am writing to advise that some of the terminology in the letter appears to be confusing ‘early settlement’ with VT


There also appears to be some confusion in respect of the GAP insurance:


From the information available about GAP insurance and VT I am actually entitled to a refund of the premium on a pro rata basis as well and a refund of the interest.


Your letter is misleading and so i would like you to provide me with a break down of how you have arrived at the figure of £294.53 still owed by me for GAP insurance ?


In respect of the loan for the vehicle you have quoted £294.53 ‘early settlement’ fee and as I have previously stated this is NOT early settlement it is Voluntary Termination


I also advise that I have not received any response to my query regarding the full interest amount on the loan being included in the final figures you have sent.


For your information I have done a calculation using the information available to me in respect of VT’s and they are as follows:


HP £14469
Loan £399


Interest 4.9% charged for the duration of the agreement £1666.68


Opening balance


HP £21385.68 which includes 1666.68 interest
Loan £445.09 which includes £46.09 interest


Including June I have made 21 payments of £233.14 = £4,895.94
My deposit was £5,250.00
Total £10,145.94


Half the total amount payable is £10,692.84


50% of the interest on the loan is £833.34.


£21,385.68 - £833.34 =£20,525.34 therefore 50% of £20,525.34 = £10,262.67


Which as of todays date leaves £116.73 to bring the figure up to the 50% point.


Regarding the GAP - i am due a refund of £222.55 + 50% refund on the interest which is £23.05 - £24 admin fee, which leaves a total refund of £221.60

£221.60 deducted from the VT liability of £116.73 leaves a balance 'refund' of £104.87 to be made payable to me.

As the contract officially ended on your receipt of my VT notification I would ask that you now arrange to have the vehicle collected.

If I have not had a response from you within 7 days I will complete the V5C to reflect the new keepers of the vehicle and cancel the insurance policy.

I have today cancelled my direct debit.

Yours

Lorraine Daniels

My email was sent on the 5/7/16

I have today received this:

Dear Miss Daniels

Thank you for your email.

I can assure you that the calculations on the quote are correct. The total amount of the amount financed is taken to find the halfway point.

We paid the insurance for you as a separate transaction when you took the agreement out. The term “early settlement” is correct in relation to the insurance as that is being paid off early.

You should contact the Insurers directly if you think you are due a refund from them.

Kind regards
Jean Goodall
Customer Services

Can you please advise.

I have cancelled the car insurance (normal insurance)
I have declared SORN on the car
I have completed the relevant details on the log book
I have cancelled my DD to Citroen finance.

They have still not given me a collection date or given me the breakdown I asked for in my email.

What is my next step ?

Regards

Lorraine

[des8]

Re: Voluntary Termination & GAP insurance

Regarding the GAP insurance, the intermediary who arranged it should notify the insurers of its cancellation and request the refund.
This is because in the premium there will probably be a commission element that needs to be taken into account.
Who arranged the policy? was it the dealer or the finance house?
Contact the insurers directly and see what they say.

[Groundednearthed]

Re: Voluntary Termination & GAP insurance

Hi des8
I asked the finance house for details of the GAP insurers and they told me i have to ask the dealership?

So I will contact them and see what they say, but what puzzles me is the finance house are asking me to pay 'them' the amount they believe is outstanding on the insurance because they provided the loan to pay for the GAP, so shouldn't the insurers and the finance house be sorting this out ?

Thanks

[Groundednearthed]

Re: Voluntary Termination & GAP insurance

Hi des8

Called Car Care Plan and they have canceled the policy sadly only as of today, even though i cancelled the contract 2 weeks ago.
They have confirmed there is a refund that will be sent in 28 days.

I suspect citroen finance have possibly been delaying.

So now i have the issue of them failing to arrange collection and although disagreeing that I owe them nothing not actually breaking their figures down and still insisting its early settlement?

Can I send the log book off without the signature of the collection company ?

Thanks

Lorraine

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination & GAP insurance

The agreement is effectively two agreements rolled into one. If the finance company rolls the insurance into the total amount payable instead of doing it separately then that is their choice. Your liability remains at 50% of the total amount payable and because they have included it in the total amount payable then you are not liable separately for the outstanding amount in any way. They are claiming to have paid the insurance as a separate transaction but that would not seem to be reflected in the agreement, unless I am missing something.

As for your next steps, the dispute as to the amount you owe to them does not alter the fact that you have terminated the agreement and responsibility of the vehicle now rests with them. They have refused to give a collection date (not sure if its on the premise that they want their money first) and it has been some weeks since the agreement was terminated. It is no longer your responsibility to look after the car and presumably if you have SORN'd the car it is sitting on a driveway? If that's the case then you could also claim that it is taking up space on your property.

I would suggest that they contact you to arrange collection within the next 7 days otherwise you will remove the vehicle from your property and park it on a public highway and you will notify the DVLA that they are now the registered keeper. Liability for the vehicle will then rest with them. You could also mention to them that you have also SORN'd the vehicle. Your alternative would be to charge them for storage of the vehicle on your drive, £5-£10 per day? At that point you would have to take them to court to recover that amount from them.

If you do move the vehicle onto a public road, make sure you notify the DVLA first and received confirmation that details have now changed - otherwise you it will be you who is landed with charges for failing to insure. The fastest way to do this is online here ->https://www.gov.uk/sold-bought-vehicle

[des8]

Re: Voluntary Termination & GAP insurance

If you do move it on to the road, and somehow it causes a problem or an accident, you might well be held responsible as being the last person to drive it. (comment made as OP might well live on a hill and it is not unknown for handbrakes to fail!)

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination & GAP insurance

Good point Des, in that case don't forget to put it in 1st gear (uphill) or reverse (downhill) before getting out of the car!

[Groundednearthed]

Re: Voluntary Termination & GAP insurance

Right o thanks guys, I will contact them again today. It is in my drive and I would rather it was removed now as its just sitting there. I stick by my calculations and the GAP insures appear to agree with me so...
The finance house response email was pretty dismal I did double check to make sure it had actually come from them as it presented as quite unprofessional.
Anyway I have SORN'd the car, DD is cancelled, insurance cancelled, millions of pictures taken covering every conceivable angle inside and out, picture of mileage so I think I'm good to go.

I really do appreciate the support you have given me, i'm quite bold but things like this can be a bit daunting, so yeah Thanks xxx :_tighthug__by_darkm:thumb:

[Groundednearthed]

Re: Voluntary Termination & GAP insurance

HI - update

So despite all my efforts the finance company are chasing me for the D/D I cancelled even though I have advised them i have cancelled it.

I have had my GAP insurance refund, ended my insurance, and DVLA have confirmed I am no longer the registered owner.

2 weeks have gone by and still no contact from Citroen finance re a collection date.

Car is parked in a communal car park, we have all the pictures, milegae etc and really dont know what else to do. Its just sitting there

[des8]

Re: Voluntary Termination & GAP insurance

[MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION] would Grounded Earthed be considered an involuntary bailee in these circumstances?

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination & GAP insurance

Possibly yes, the general rule is that a bailee is liable not to cause damage or loss to the goods however there is a exceptions to this. Some of these include abandonment of goods and the other which may also apply is acceptance of disposal when reasonable notice has been given.

The disposal option is what I suggest when putting the finance co's on notice of the intention to cancel the tax and insurance and notify the DVLA that they are the registered keeper. If they fail to reply within a reaosnable time, then it can be deemed that they have accepted the position you intend to take. Equally if they have refused to pick up or acknowledge in anyway then that could potentially deemed as an abandonment of goods but the latter would be easier to prove with letters and email chains as evidence.

[Groundednearthed]

Re: Voluntary Termination & GAP insurance

Possibly yes, the general rule is that a bailee is liable not to cause damage or loss to the goods however there is a exceptions to this. Some of these include abandonment of goods and the other which may also apply is acceptance of disposal when reasonable notice has been given.

The disposal option is what I suggest when putting the finance co's on notice of the intention to cancel the tax and insurance and notify the DVLA that they are the registered keeper. If they fail to reply within a reaosnable time, then it can be deemed that they have accepted the position you intend to take. Equally if they have refused to pick up or acknowledge in anyway then that could potentially deemed as an abandonment of goods but the latter would be easier to prove with letters and email chains as evidence.

Hi both:

So do I need to notify them again that the vehicle is no longer registered to me and ask again for them to collect.

I also receievd a letter from thier 'complaints' team advising that they are dealing with my complaint?? I actually dont now what they are doing

Thanks for your continued support and advice