That referendum ...

[leclerc]

Re: That referendum ...

I think many of us have look internally at the impact of Brexit rather than externally and the affect of Brexit on other countries. As usual I've found someone else to do the legwork for me and found this item that was prior to the Brexit which discussed the various models and the impact brexit would have both for the UK and the EU. [MENTION=30456]wales01man[/MENTION] I am a wally so am not insulted. [MENTION=84575]Berti[/MENTION] is there a post missing from me as you've apologies to me when I don't recall being offended?

Nearly forgot the article(see above wally comment for reason )

https://www.global-counsel.co.uk/sit..._of_Brexit.pdf

[wales01man]

Re: That referendum ...

We can debate this on here as sensible adults no Problem with this referendum was the fact that both sides and the media re guilty of giving out loads of rubbish before the vote its coming back to bite some in politics need for name calling we have 2 sides of an argument its good to discuss this as it in the end affects all of us.

[pt2537]

Re: That referendum ...

Sooo since the brexit vote,

£ has crashed
Economy slowed
Funds have stopped withdrawals
Major companies have started removing HQs from UK
UK has lost its credit rating
Redundancies have started gathering pace
Job vacancy ads have dropped
OH and i forgot to add the Bank of England now has nowhere to go as it cannot cut interest rates to boost the economy as they are already at their lowest, to cut rates would be counter productive and damage the economy even more.

AND theres legal action over Article 50 and the constitutional process needed to activate it

ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNND the EU has already said no single market access without compliance with the rules.

The economists who gave their predictions before the vote have been proven right so far, i hope their forecasts going forward are wrong or we face a potential return to the 80s , job lossess, high unemployment, inflation, interest rates 15% plus.

All because some wallies ( my opinion) wanted to curb immigration, something which has been confirmed by the leave camp as NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

Project fear is fast being proven as PROJECT FACT. The evidence is there for all to see, you just need to look.

Oh and hate crimes are up over 43% since 25th, what a wonderful country we live in.

Just rejoice at that news.

[PAWS]

Re: That referendum ...

Totally agree Berti and eloquently put. I was proud to be part of this discussion because despite the odd tangent I thought we were showing respect for other people’s opinion. It is hard to try and get ones point across without using quotes or examples such as my MIL who voted leave to get rid of, well just about everyone who isn’t ENGLISH -Yep English! But not for one minute was I implying that all leavers had the same reason. Or should that be lack of reasoning!
There was a referendum because people have different opinions. Some of us are passionate about those opinions and are simply backing up our points with facts, figures, and quotes from voters and experts. I could imply that all people voted to leave to get rid of people like me but I know that is not true. I also have to admit that many of the comments posted by leavers have made me think as most are intelligently put. Having considered those points I may not agree but I will say one thing;Every time I log on I learn something and I am the better for it.
Please let us not become like the many other sites debating this subject. We are so much better than that.

Re: That referendum ...

Leclerc

sorry my comments didn't sound at all patronising now did they . I really am not one to talk about education.

Walesman
I know I didn't expect that petition to be accepted but it shows the strength of feeling. Ironic wasn't it that it was tarted by a leaver before the results were known.
There is still the small matter of deciding who can trigger article 50. Whatever anyone says, it needs a parliamentary majority to repeal the act and u till that is done we should not be able to invoke article 50.

I think this may be one of the defining moments in our countries history akin to the act of union or the Second World War.

[wales01man]

Re: That referendum ...

I see that petition calling for the vote to be re run has been rejected by the Government maybe now we can get on with working towards a future and all the nonsense about what MAY happen put to one side.

Re: That referendum ...

Enaid
I think the best academics and the government certainly knew that the wheels would fall off the economy, I have contacts with contacts high up in the Tory party. Hell even my father knew the financial pyramid was unstable and would collapse, he was not a banker just someone who read a lot and had experience in life. I do not know how he would have voted but I suspect that despite misgivings he would have wanted to remain because he was a genuinely caring and concerned individual who thought about the many and not the few.

Dont misunderstand, politically we were poles apart but he had compassion.

Re: That referendum ...

Leclerc
Who says you aren't educated enough? I have no idea what your level of education is but to be honest all education does is help you debate and you do that quite well.

I thnk hunk that there has been a huge divide, clearly 37% voted out, 35% voted in and the rest didn't bother. The divide seems to be across the political and social spectrum and while I only know a few people who voted leave others I know , know nearly all leavers. People voted leave for many reasons, some of them a bit silly such as getting the Asians out of Leicester or stopping Muslims coming here. Others believed the lies told by the leave campaign about the amount staying in cost and believed it would all go to the NHS but part of that money came back as subsidies to the farmers who were also promised the earth.
Some voted leave for well thought out and argued reasons.

I voted remain main because I thought it was by far the better of two evils, I believe the cost is marginal, the rights that individuals and workers get are protected by the EU, two examples are holidays and maternity/paternity leave. I hate capitalism and for that reason maybe should have voted out but I see managed capitalism as in the EU preferable to the largely unregulated liberal capitalism of the USA and the world bank group. I believe in helping those less fortunate as opposed to enslaving them to the needs and values of the west.

Out of the people I know who voted remain, not one of them thinks the EU is perfect and all think it needs reform so I disagree with the commentator in the spectator. As for the media, well sadly many people just do not seem to understand that they all have a bias, the Spectator is aligned with the DM and Telegraph , the Guardian is much more left of centre . The poor old BBC is called right wing by socialists and left wing by the Right, it seems fairly balanced IF you watch enough of it.

I genuinely believe that that should we leave it will be the most monumental mistake but a sizeable number of those who voted leave will not be here to see the true outcome. Of course if we remain, those same people will not be around because the damage caused will take years to put right.

I believe eve there will be a brain drain from Britain , there is apprently already a rush for job applications abroad.

I hope I am wrong I truly do but I just can't see it.

The reason it is being so devisive is that leaving is pretty much guaranteed to be a one way ticket, to rejoin or slow down the leaving would take a unanimous vote from the 27.. I was upset when Cameron got won in 2015 but at least I knew that could change in 2020.

[leclerc]

Re: That referendum ...

I was looking at something to kinda rebuff some of the things written but clearly I am not educated enough but I can use google and Emily Hill kinda sums up a few things quite nicely writing in The Spectator

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/w...-voting-leave/

[enaid]

Re: That referendum ...

Yes figures can be estimated but the best evidence from the best academic and political minds overwhelmingly say we are royally screwed.

As we have been by banks and other financial institutions for years, we are only just finding answers to how this can be resolved, as for liars and cheats in Brexit I think it's very much even stevens on that score from both sides.
The best academics didn't predict the flooring the economy got in 2008 but us muggins were made to right the wrongs with no option, options small businesses and larger ones don't have they just go bump. The banks are supported by the government no matter what via the tax payer and why? because it suits and no EU laws will intervene on that score either cause it suits them too. Tax evasion, avoidance, fiddling the books is all controlled by the capital of finance that happens to be our capital city

Re: That referendum ...

Walesman, I'm sorry if I hit a nerve but I have no idea of your political leanings.

I did not accuse anyone in particular and most certainly not all leavers of being right wing bigots. If you care to read what I actually wrote I said some leavers were right wing bigots and I made a point that they were not necessarily on this forum. I will not name names but two of the biggest are actually on different forums to this and I do not interact with them, I have just observed their comments.
There are people who voted out who I can and do have civilised conversations with and will continue to do so.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes figures can be estimated but the best evidence from the best academic and political minds overwhelmingly say we are royally screwed.

The main Brexit politicians have been shown up to be liars and cheats eh Nigel.

[wales01man]

Re: That referendum ...

Figures can be estimated but what will matter is the economics when we leave no one knows what happens predictions can be right or wrong as for us that support leaving being right wing bigots as one Member has said has this member got proof or just more guessing >

Re: That referendum ...

It seems that this discussion will not end until a decision is made, it really is too early yet to confirm that we will leave. By the amount of noise made about triggering article 50 now I am wondering if the leave campaign are worried about the truth coming out and Parliament not triggering article 50. I am still thinking about taking my skills into Europe although there is some time before I am free to do that particularly if I decide to do a masters.

[Amethyst]

Re: That referendum ...

Factual evidence wise - https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...b_09122015.pdf
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/data/database

[PAWS]

Re: That referendum ...

If we cannot get decent trade agreements in place and the financial sector cannot get their passports to trade freely they will have to go. They will not be able to operate in the UK. It is as simple as that. Saying the future will be brighter is not enough I am afraid. I would like to say the sun will shine this afternoon but there is more chance Poldark will turn up and………...Anyway…..

Whichever woman wins the leadership, they will need to ditch the Dior tights and invest in knee pads because she will eventually have to grovel like a painted whore before the EU if we are to have a chance of getting any sort of trade agreements in place.
In this leadership race has any feasible idea been offered to replace the lost revenue ? What will we be able to offer? Do we think we can go back to buying British? No problem -I will trade my clapped out Peugeot for an Aston Martin without a flinch!