Credit Card issued pre2007

[nemesis45]

Re: Credit Card issued pre2007

Dear All
In your views, what would be an issue, if I hold back and only submit a repeat CCA request, should they raise threats of legal action?
Islandblue

.

Hello Island Blue,
Yes if that's what you feel is best for you, you could get ahead of the game by making a CCA request to the original creditor as no doubt the " new owner" will have to try and get an agreement from them anyway as the agreement is not supplied when a debt is sold.
As always you must do what you believe is best for you.

nem

[Islandblue]

Re: Credit Card issued pre2007

Thank you Nem & Amethyst.
One last query. Nobody has come back to me regarding the chances of them producing a copy of what the connected co. to the current one, supplied me 5 years ago following my CCA request.
Also, how can I or any other debtor, be able to determine as to whether the docs supplied are compliant and reliable? There are no examples anywhere on the net?

[Amethyst]

Re: Credit Card issued pre2007

How long is a piece of string ? Sorry that isn't a great help - things weren't as organised 5 years ago as they are now so they might have sent it and binned their copy, or just not filed it away etc. There are lots of examples on the net if you know where to look - here for example http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...itions-Library or Google Image search throws up loads - CREDITOR NAME CCA 2007 etc.

[nemesis45]

Re: Credit Card issued pre2007

Thank you Nem & Amethyst.
One last query. Nobody has come back to me regarding the chances of them producing a copy of what the connected co. to the current one, supplied me 5 years ago following my CCA request.
Also, how can I or any other debtor, be able to determine as to whether the docs supplied are compliant and reliable? There are no examples anywhere on the net?

Amethyst has some companies terms and conditions/ agreement forms/applications and some of us have seen many other documents and can see if something is missing or not properly constituted.

There is also the possibility that a debt purchaser can produce a " reconstituted " agreement which is made up from data on Ts & Cs relevant at the time an agreement was signed and those relevant when the account was closed and name and address details.
nem

[Islandblue]

Re: Credit Card issued pre2007

Thank you Amethyst. I can't tell you how much this site, is heart-warming and supportive. You can feel so alone and powerless.
The doc I was sent, asks for details of employment, salary, name, address, contact no. mother's maiden name, type of plastic design required, signature under credit agreement and over the page it set out the terms and condition of the account eg, paying the balance, charges made etc. What do you think?
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[NWHC]

Re: Credit Card issued pre2007

Hi
As far as I understand it there are certain very specific criteria that must be adhered to when compiling a credit agreement. For agreements pre 2007 if these are not complied with they can not enforce
Roughly these are
Name and address of both the creditor and account holder at the time of inception - this is often messed up when a debt purchaser tries to do a recon if the debtor has moved

The interest rate

The credit limit OR how the credit limit will be decided ( for a credit card)

How the debt needs to be repaid

These must all be embodied in one document

I am sorry but I do not fully understand it

In addition the terms and conditions must relate to what is on the agreement -sometimes they send ones that do not match so for example the agreement may refer to term 10 and there is no term 10 or it bears no relation to what it should do

I have copied these from another website

"A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit" (paragraph 3 of Schedule 6);

"A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement" (paragraph 4 of Schedule 6);

"A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following:
— number of repayments;
— amount of repayments;
— frequency and timing of repayments;
— dates of repayments;
— the manner in which any of the above may be determined;
— or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable." (paragraph 5 of Schedule 6)

[Islandblue]

Re: Credit Card issued pre2007

Thank you so much NWHC. I need all the help I can get. Islandblue

[NWHC]

Re: Credit Card issued pre2007

I have found the regulations

here
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...chedule/6/made

Although that is the simplified version and there are other things to consider such as terms etc

So when you send a cca request the there are two peices of legislation you are looking at
1) S77-79 consumer credit Act which requires a copy of either the original or a recon and it must include terms and conditions from inception i.e when you took it out and terms and conditions from default ( or current)
If they do not comply with this they can not enforce it in a court ( as long as you defend it) until they have complied with it

2) The prescribed terms- if the agreement is flawed (for a pre Apr 2007) agreement then it can never be enforced , again as long as you defend it

So what happens if they send you a recon that is ok , well if you can convince a judge that on balance of probabilities you did not sign a compliant agreement then the agreement is unenforceable . It is a bit of a lottery unless you have good skills of persuasion or evidence . many catalogue firms used to give credit over the phone and did not have signed agreements, or they might just be an application form - well in that case they were stuffed

Unfortunately the law was changed and after 2007 they only need to comply with S77--79 so get a recon to you. It just shows how corrupt our government(s) are when they allow huge banks with huge resources to ignore the law and still be able to enforce debts. I would expect a multinational corporation to be able to at least follow the law

[Islandblue]

Re: Credit Card issued pre2007

Dear NWHC
Thank you so much for taking the time to find the attachment.
You are all such supportive and wonderful people on this Forum.
It's highly likely that I will be revisiting over the weekend.
With best wishes to you all

I have found the regulations

here
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...chedule/6/made

Although that is the simplified version and there are other things to consider such as terms etc

So when you send a cca request the there are two peices of legislation you are looking at
1) S77-79 consumer credit Act which requires a copy of either the original or a recon and it must include terms and conditions from inception i.e when you took it out and terms and conditions from default ( or current)
If they do not comply with this they can not enforce it in a court ( as long as you defend it) until they have complied with it

2) The prescribed terms- if the agreement is flawed (for a pre Apr 2007) agreement then it can never be enforced , again as long as you defend it

So what happens if they send you a recon that is ok , well if you can convince a judge that on balance of probabilities you did not sign a compliant agreement then the agreement is unenforceable . It is a bit of a lottery unless you have good skills of persuasion or evidence . many catalogue firms used to give credit over the phone and did not have signed agreements, or they might just be an application form - well in that case they were stuffed

Unfortunately the law was changed and after 2007 they only need to comply with S77--79 so get a recon to you. It just shows how corrupt our government(s) are when they allow huge banks with huge resources to ignore the law and still be able to enforce debts. I would expect a multinational corporation to be able to at least follow the law