Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

[wales01man]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

Carry on being honest and telling the truth a police interview is a formality if it happens they will not torture you or try to get you to admit something you did not do.
look after the baby and the others they are more important than this minor episode in your life

[Terrified please help me]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

Carry on being honest and telling the truth a police interview is a formality if it happens they will not torture you or try to get you to admit something you did not do.
look after the baby and the others they are more important than this minor episode in your life

Thanks! Yes I will continue to tell the truth and I will concentrate on my babies today because after all, they are the most important things in my life and don't deserve to have a stressed out mummy not spending time with them because she's too worried about herself and the what ifs!

[Amethyst]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

Yeah! Managed 6 hours sleep that wasn't disturbed! I feel much better this morning and whilst the feeling hasn't gone completely, it has started to ease a lot! I no longer feel on the verge of a heart attack!

That is great to hear xxx Have a lovely weekend xxxxx ( and no more googling !!! )

[Terrified please help me]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

I am seeing this a good sign - my little lady has a birthday party next week. One of the school governors child attends the school and is in her class so we invited the child. The invites were sent out a while ago and due to everything that has gone on I wasn't expecting him to come! However, I have been messaged this morning and told that the child would love to come and thanks for the invite! I'm taking it as a good sign because surely they wouldn't assosicte with me if they were believing that this matter was criminal never mind still been friends with me on social medial etc! So hoping to have a better day today!

[Openlaw15]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

Well it's just an extension of the Tories' mantra: 'care in the community' and 'we're all in this together, ie employing volunteers saves paying them money to do responsible jobs. It's far easier to employ people without paying them even though they're no expert, and when things go topsy turvy...push them towards the firing squad (if you'll excuse the metaphor), then straight after employ someone else rather than look at the systemic problems. It is quite terrible that probably owing to lack of training or any effective training systems at that, that the volunteers will make errors (which are foreseeable for the particular organisations yet adequate training costs too much) and when they do make the errors/ mistakes that they're thrown to the wolves as they're not equipped to defend themselves. The professionals in contrast know how to defend their selves very well, especially how to blame the volunteers. It is shocking that the teachers even mention crime or breach of duty without there being an adequate system in place such as good practice or procedure to put persons such as 'Terrified Please Help Me' at ease. Least of all not being frightened, after-all, what for, merely providing a service for free owing to their generous and benevolent character. This goes on right throughout society. In my view society does not know how to deal with things...it's like a jury in the criminal context, never studied a jot of criminal law yet are expected to determine whether someone is guilty. We're in 2016, not 1916.

[Terrified please help me]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

Well it's just an extension of the Tories' mantra: 'care in the community' and 'we're all in this together, ie employing volunteers saves paying them money to do responsible jobs. It's far easier to employ people without paying them even though they're no expert, and when things go topsy turvy...push them towards the firing squad (if you'll excuse the metaphor), then straight after employ someone else rather than look at the systemic problems. It is quite terrible that probably owing to lack of training or any effective training systems at that, that the volunteers will make errors (which are foreseeable for the particular organisations yet adequate training costs too much) and when they do make the errors/ mistakes that they're thrown to the wolves as they're not equipped to defend themselves. The professionals in contrast know how to defend their selves very well, especially how to blame the volunteers. It is shocking that the teachers even mention crime or breach of duty without there being an adequate system in place such as good practice or procedure to put persons such as 'Terrified Please Help Me' at ease. Least of all not being frightened, after-all, what for, merely providing a service for free owing to their generous and benevolent character. This goes on right throughout society. In my view society does not know how to deal with things...it's like a jury in the criminal context, never studied a jot of criminal law yet are expected to determine whether someone is guilty. We're in 2016, not 1916.

I feel like I have been treated very unfairly and as a criminal before I have even been spoken to by the police. I just don't understand why you would do this to someone without even accusing of them anything first.
As I have said before I have given so much time and effort to that school it is unbelievable and to add to woes, my nana passed away this morning.
I just think that the head has to start taking some responsibility and if she has reported me to the police then at least tell what she thinks I have bloody done!
Yes I have made mistakes and yes we did write a kind of terms and conditions for our roles. However, there were spelling mistakes within it and it was agreed that it was a draft and we never got around to doing anything else with it. We never signed it off nor did any committee members agree to follow the procedures that were outlined in it. Because the head never told us what she wanted to add or if it was indeed correct in all honesty I just forgot about it! Not had a great time personally due to deaths etc in the family and this is just making the whole situation worse.
Like I say my main concern is the police turning up at home, as I don't have people around me who can assist with childcare outside of school hours really. I suppose that I may just have to try and take legal advice this week and be prepared for every eventually in this situation. I understand I am very unlikely to get sent to prison for this matter but it's still a very worrying time for me and I think it will take me a long time to recover from this incident.
Thanks for your reply x

[Openlaw15]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

I feel like I have been treated very unfairly and as a criminal before I have even been spoken to by the police. I just don't understand why you would do this to someone without even accusing of them anything first.
As I have said before I have given so much time and effort to that school it is unbelievable and to add to woes, my nana passed away this morning.
I just think that the head has to start taking some responsibility and if she has reported me to the police then at least tell what she thinks I have bloody done!
Yes I have made mistakes and yes we did write a kind of terms and conditions for our roles. However, there were spelling mistakes within it and it was agreed that it was a draft and we never got around to doing anything else with it. We never signed it off nor did any committee members agree to follow the procedures that were outlined in it. Because the head never told us what she wanted to add or if it was indeed correct in all honesty I just forgot about it! Not had a great time personally due to deaths etc in the family and this is just making the whole situation worse.
Like I say my main concern is the police turning up at home, as I don't have people around me who can assist with childcare outside of school hours really. I suppose that I may just have to try and take legal advice this week and be prepared for every eventually in this situation. I understand I am very unlikely to get sent to prison for this matter but it's still a very worrying time for me and I think it will take me a long time to recover from this incident.
Thanks for your reply x

Listen it's unlikely you'll hear anything from the police. Do you have a copy of those terms and conditions. You do not need legal advice at this stage, you have done nothing wrong...save your money. Please try not to worry

[Terrified please help me]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

Listen it's unlikely you'll hear anything from the police. Do you have a copy of those terms and conditions. You do not need legal advice at this stage, you have done nothing wrong...save your money. Please try not to worry

Hi,

No I don't have a copy. The other member of the PTA had this on her laptop and due to a small fire, this has now been lost which the head is aware of
I have had a reply from the head teacher today and she has said that she hasn't heard anything yet and she's sorry. She also has told me to take care. I don't know what to read into that but again she hasn't accused me of anything and she thinks it's up to the police to decide if I have done anything wrong not her or the person who looked at the books for her.
The plot thickens

[Openlaw15]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

Hi,

No I don't have a copy. The other member of the PTA had this on her laptop and due to a small fire, this has now been lost which the head is aware of
I have had a reply from the head teacher today and she has said that she hasn't heard anything yet and she's sorry. She also has told me to take care. I don't know what to read into that but again she hasn't accused me of anything and she thinks it's up to the police to decide if I have done anything wrong not her or the person who looked at the books for her.
The plot thickens

There are no clear rules for PTAs to follow in which there should be to enable completion of duties/ tasks. How much training have you had by whomever, and what type of training did that entail? I think this is very harsh it's been reported to the police for no more than £300 where Nemesis told you the situation he knows of was for £2000 in which no action was taken. Therefore it seems to me like an abuse of a discretionary power that the school holds. Have you left this position now or have they relieved you of the position?

[Terrified please help me]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

I will try keep it short lol.
I have had no training whatsoever and whilst I have my own business, I have not had any book keeping experiance or maths qualification etc. I wasn't even asked if this was needed
I was told by the school account manager in December, when all of this came to light that all money should be banked and then taken back out for cash floats etc. I wasn't aware that this was the case and I did say that to her. Like I say no training whatsoever
I was told apparently the head was very careful with money and that I needed to make sure I kept on top of it. Which I did do by ensuring that money was counted with witnesses present and the amount that was counted. This was then written as a cash log so we knew how much cash we actually had. There are other people who knew how much funds I had this was never hidden by me and the school never asked so I never said. Had they have questioned it sooner I would have known I had done something wrong. Only when I was presented with misappropetion of funds and how serious it was did I realise that perhaps I had done something wrong. But the head never accused me of this just said it could be that and that she would have to take further advice on what to do. She told me she has reported it to the council for their assistance and their advice as well the chair of govs was to pass it to the police so she did. But again I haven't been accused out right of anything whatsoever.
There are children within the school who only last week admitted to theft. They run tuck shops etc and it was said that they were taking money from there when parents were queuing change etc. So this to me speaks volumes with regards to the policies she actually has in place regarding money
I cannot tell you the amount of times we have been given money within the PTA that wasn't ours. For example, trip money, lunch money with children's names on etc. When we presented this to the head she was very blasé about it and said well books add up yours don't. When I said they can't because we had over £100 that was sat in the safe for a whole week can this be the case. So I suspect that there could be more to this and I am the one that is taking the blame due to her negligence on what is happening right under her nose.
I don't think she has realised that I would mention all of this if I was questioned by the police.
I stepped down from my position, as I felt I had no choice to do so. She bascially threw the book at me (excuse the use of term) and told me that I had acted wrong and the matter was serious. She did however, say that she would love to have me back reading when this dies down and for me to also assist with events but couldn't allow me to be the chair etc. I asked what I should tell people and she insisted and still does that it's due to personal reasons. No parents have been informed I no longer run the PTA. Whilst this was going on my grandad was dying in hospital and I was also not very well myself so wasn't perhaps in the right frame of mind to stand my ground with her more. She was aware of the situation as I told her. Also my husband was away working as he has recently started a new job - again she was aware of this, as we often spoke about family and our personal life's. I have always had the school back and calmed down so many parents and assisted them with issues which don't actually concern me or my children
I was always there helping with something - photo days, school events, sports days etc. So much so the children called me Mrs xxxxx and I think they all thought that I am actually a teacher! Some parents did until I told them I was just helping out. It's a massive kick in the teeth.
Initially she beleived that was £800 missing and I produced her with events that she hadn't mentioned - such as we did baking with 300 children, made wooden figures and purchased juice etc for the children during many events. When I explained this to her and informed her she had not written any of this down in her findings, she accepted this to be the fact and agreed she knew I have purchased these kinds of things as we had even spoken about it! I run an event for 30 children out of my own funds! And countless other things I have paid for that tbh I can't even recall them all now.
So she agreed that the figure was no where near that. In my eyes is there not any money missing whatsoever and in other member of the PTA eyes there isn't either.
So again I don't understand why she has taken it so far - and I appreciate no one can give me that answer but her!
I haven't been banned from the school, as I have been in the school since this came to light reading for one last time in December with the children.
There is no evidence other than what I have written down for any incomings, just as there is very little prove of what was spent Due to the lack of receipts. I know I have made some big mistakes but does any of this make me a criminal!?

[Openlaw15]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

This is no certainty as to the amount that can be accounted for, so it could be much less than the £300. What type of school is it, could you make a complaint to the local education authority or the relevant Academy? You should not have had to stand down. In my view it sounds like the woman couldn't organise a p*** up in a brewery. There are no adequate system to deal with finances and it's much easier to blame you than her to take responsibility for her incompetence and the incompetent systems for dealing with finances. If there were adequate systems you simply would not have made the errors you did, in my view. I cannot see grounds for civil action against you never mind criminal action.

[Terrified please help me]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

Thank you. I feel so much better to have someone else's views on this matter. It also makes me feel better knowing that at least a week on that the head hasn't heard anything back from the police. I know this doesn't mean that I am in the clear from been questioned but I presume the longer it goes on the harder it will be for them to gather evidence and witness statements for conversations that happened a year ago never mind 6 weeks ago. Can I take comfort in that fact!? Or am I asking a question no one really knows the answer to?
its a council run school - do you think that I have the right to make a complaint? I have witnessed some pretty out of hand things during my days as a volunteer there and I am thinking of perhaps adding these matters to the complaint. Just how children have been treated, how things have been discussed with me that shouldn't have. I was a parent governor at the time and whilst i told her I was already resigning before this came to light, I'm not sure where my legal obligation stands here with this one either. I was told that I would be discussed in the next governors meeting and they would have to know of my wrongdoings and had I not already stepped down,, they would have forced me to resign due to my negligence and bringing the school into disrepute over this matter. - again I'm not sure where I stand on this one.
She does have offstead knocking on the door at any moment and I am wondering had this not been the case, perhaps she might have handled things a little differently. However, I was told that the PTA isn't normally discussed within an offstead so I had no need to worry on that front.
Just feeling totally lost and don't know what to do for the best. I have considered taking my children from the school but I don't want that to make me look guilty or as if I have something to hide. I'm sure it wouldn't but like I say I am concerned that this may lead to negligence of my children/ for example, when my grandad died I asked for my child to be spoken to with the school and I was never told that she had been, until my daughter told me about it. I've had no contact from the school to let me know how she is getting on etc. It's all come from my daughter herself what's happening on a daily basis. For example today they are going to be letting ballons go with a note on for grandad. This isn't the first time my children have dealt with grieve and isn't the last due to losing Nan at the weekend. Any advice?

[Terrified please help me]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

This is no certainty as to the amount that can be accounted for, so it could be much less than the £300. What type of school is it, could you make a complaint to the local education authority or the relevant Academy? You should not have had to stand down. In my view it sounds like the woman couldn't organise a p*** up in a brewery. There are no adequate system to deal with finances and it's much easier to blame you than her to take responsibility for her incompetence and the incompetent systems for dealing with finances. If there were adequate systems you simply would not have made the errors you did, in my view. I cannot see grounds for civil action against you never mind criminal action.

And just to add, I have never actually been spoken to by the accountant who has looked at the books. Is an accountant and an auditer the same thing? I have no idea!

[Terrified please help me]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

This is no certainty as to the amount that can be accounted for, so it could be much less than the £300. What type of school is it, could you make a complaint to the local education authority or the relevant Academy? You should not have had to stand down. In my view it sounds like the woman couldn't organise a p*** up in a brewery. There are no adequate system to deal with finances and it's much easier to blame you than her to take responsibility for her incompetence and the incompetent systems for dealing with finances. If there were adequate systems you simply would not have made the errors you did, in my view. I cannot see grounds for civil action against you never mind criminal action.

Sorry to ask another question but do you know how long it would take the police to let the school know if they weren't going to investigate the case further? I thought it was 5 days but that's what I found on a website so it could be out of date!

[Openlaw15]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

Sorry to ask another question but do you know how long it would take the police to let the school know if they weren't going to investigate the case further? I thought it was 5 days but that's what I found on a website so it could be out of date!

Has there definitely been a report to the police, if so it shouldn't take too long to investigate. Worse case scenario they may interview you as a formality but please try to put this out of your mind. You need to put this to the side and just carrying on being the mother and wife that you are. You may not hear anything back at all. No news is good news as they say, right?