Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

[Terrified please help me]

I am a real worrier naturally but I need help and/or advice please, as I have been reported to the police and I don't know what to do and I am sat listening to every little bang thinking that they have come to take me away, can I just say that I don't actually think I've done anything wrong but as I heard the word police I freaked out. Anyway, this is a long story but here goes
I have been in charge of the PTA for 10 months: during this time I have run many events and assisted the school in other matters that are not PTA related.
Anyway in December a cheque was posted to a company with no paye and it was for the wrong amount by a few hundred pounds. I didn't send this cheque, I have written the cheque nor have I signed the cheque. This is where the whole sorry mess started.
I was asked to take the books to the school for them to look at. They were a mess, a real mess! I mean like you wouldn't beleive. Just scraps of paper and there are many reciepts missing. I mean loads, more missing than we actually have. But they were kept within the school and I said I am not taking full responsibility for them going missing as I do have witnesses who can state that they have seen me take these receipts to school. Anyway because the books were a real mess, an accountancy was employeed to look at the books.
I did bank any money for ten months. I can't actually beleuve I did it I really can't now I have looked back and thought what an idiot I have been. I have wanted to go and bank money and said I was going to but when I've arrived at the bank there has been a queue or I've forgotten the pay in book or whatever and I've just taken the money home. I have never hid I have had money at home from the other member of the PTA and she has known what o have had the amount etc. Is this a criminal offence? The head of the school seems to think that it is because this is what she is saying where my actual real wrong doing is. didn't hear anything further from the school, they have said they don't think I've stolen anything either. Anyway because of the descrepancies in the account and no reciepts they were advised to contact the police, which is what the head teacher has done: I inly know this because I emailed and asked how everything went with the accountancy because I haven't heard anything from the school yet and she made me step down from my roles within the school.
in her email she hasn't accused me of anything nor told me what I have been reported actually for. She said if she hears anything she will let me know and that was it. So I don't know what I'm accused of etc so I'm in total limbo and scared to death that the police are going to be looking at me for something like fraud or embezzlement
What do you think is going to happen? What can I do if the police do come and arrest me? Will I be given time to sort out childcare for my kids? I'm petrified they will come in the middle of the night or first thing and take me away with the children seeing this. I don't want them to be damaged by my stupid mistakes. I am so desperate to proof my innocence and for this to go away. I am petrefied that somehwere along the lines without realising it I have done/said something that could make this a criminal offence and not even know I was doing it

[Amethyst]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

Ok calm down firstly, you're getting yourself in a tizz was.

Firstly your fears about the police coming in the middle of the night and taking you away - that doesn't happen ( well unless you've just stabbed someone ).

I was 'invited for questioning' a few years back as a neighbour accused me of punching her ( I hadn't ). The police came round my house and we had a chat and they asked me to go to the station for questioning. I had the children at home and was on my own so they asked me if I could sort out someone to look after them for a couple of hours then pop into the police station later on. As it was an ''assault'' issue they were insistent I went in and they did say if I couldn't get anyone to have the kids they would have to get social services to have them for a couple hours ( bit scary but remember this was allegation of assault not forgetting to bank some money) .... but they did give me a few hours to get the kids looked after and I took myself to the Police station for an interview. There were no lights and sirens, no caving the door in, and no hassle at all really.

So hopefully that makes you feel a bit better ?

So you haven't actually stolen anything, just been a bit crap at the accounts and have the money at home rather than having put it in the bank.

Are you the treasurer of the PTA ? It could be a breach of your fidicuary duties/ duty of care to the school/PTA in the position you're in, but that's a civil / disciplinary matter not theft. You've stepped down from your post in the PTA - where is the money now has it been handed in to the school ?

Also I'm not sure where the cheque comes in - or was that just what started off the school looking at the PTA books?

[nemesis45]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

I was chair of my grand children's PTA for a number of years and had an incident where the treasurer had not
been paying money into the PTA bank account. [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] is spot on the breach of fiduciary duties.
Once the books have been audited after the monies have been
banked there is a significant shortage in the account you would no doubt
be called to account for this

Is this PTA run by a committee with elected officer. i.e. Chair deputy chair, secretary and all importantly a treasurer.
Is the PTA a registered charity?

[Terrified please help me]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

Thanks for replying
I am a real worrier!
I was the chair and then there was the secretary and that was it that were official members of the PTA. We did ask for a treasurer but she never did anything and I got fed up of asking her. We did say we were going to hold a meeting after Xmas and ask for a new one and then we could get everything sorted out.
I know I have really messed up here but am I going to be looking at jail time for this?? I don't even know what the breach you mentioned is
No we are not a registered charity.
We were never handed books when I took over and we have had little to no guidance from the school despite me asking for this.
I am in a real panic but appreciate the police more than likely won't come and take me away in the middle of the night

[Terrified please help me]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

Just to add yes all the money has been handed over. I have said that if I have made a mistake I am happy to give this money as a donation because I haven't taken anything and like I said the head agreed that I haven't taken anything and she does or did beleive that this wasn't the case. I am most definitely in violation of trust here and I accept that and I am willing to accept that but is this something that I will be sent to prison for?? Sorry for all the questions and lengthy posts I am just so worried it's actually making me unwell! And I know it's all my own fault which is what makes it worse I think.
The other lady who was part of the PTA has said that she thinks this could be a civil matter and more than likely be passed back and I won't even be talked to by the police because they will see it's bad book keeping rather than me stealing or commuting fraud etc

[Amethyst]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

You won't be going to prison either xxx

Fidicuary duty is just basically the school trust you to look after the money and you don't do it very well.

A fiduciary is someone who has undertaken to act for and on behalf of another in a particular matter in circumstances which give rise to a relationship of trust and confidence

[Amethyst]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

The other lady who was part of the PTA has said that she thinks this could be a civil matter and more than likely be passed back and I won't even be talked to by the police because they will see it's bad book keeping rather than me stealing or commuting fraud etc

She is right xx

[nemesis45]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

Thanks for replying
I am a real worrier!
I was the chair and then there was the secretary and that was it that were official members of the PTA. We did ask for a treasurer but she never did anything and I got fed up of asking her. We did say we were going to hold a meeting after Xmas and ask for a new one and then we could get everything sorted out.
I know I have really messed up here but am I going to be looking at jail time for this?? I don't even know what the breach you mentioned is
No we are not a registered charity.
We were never handed books when I took over and we have had little to no guidance from the school despite me asking for this.
I am in a real panic but appreciate the police more than likely won't come and take me away in the middle of the night

I don't think the police will be making any dawn raids over this, and certainly not jail.



The ideal solution would have been to call an extra ordinary general meeting of the PTA and ask the treasurer to stand down.
It's certainly does work having 1 officer doing 2 jobs.

The action I took was dictated by a charity charter a report to the police get a crime number an hold it whilst investigations
took place.

What is the situation now have the books been balanced yet?

nem

[Terrified please help me]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

Thank god for that! Yes I think it's a civil matter and I have done all along. I know companies can open up cases and recover loses and that's what I was expecting them to do tbh.
I volunteered within the school doing reading and I was also a parent governor for a very short time - I didn't like it and last all of a meeting and stepped away. I didn't like it and it wasn't for me, which will clearly add to all of this.
Just to add to in my last meeting with the head she said she was gutted that she had lost me. She said she wanted in time for me to assist with PTA events and also when I felt ready again to go and read with the children. I offered so much support. I even used to go and take the children in, in a morning if there was an incident or a teacher was running late. I did baking classes, run cooking classes honestly I was there more than I was at home or at my own business because they took, took, took from me and I just kept on giving because that's the sort of person that I am and I could see additional help was needed.
I was thinking she was threatening me at first with the hope that perhaps I might admit to something but like I say, I haven't done anything, theft is a big thing in my eyes and so is fraud etc. I've never spent money without other people present and I have often asked the school for huidance and help and it hasn't been very forthcoming

[Terrified please help me]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

I don't know anything about anything tbh. I have been told that the accountant found some descrepancies on receipts but I don't know what they are or for amounts. I can't imagine that they will be anythjng major. There was one thing she mentioned which was a bear and it was something we got for a competition so that was easily explained away. We have held at least one event a month and I think in hindsight it was too much. But isn't hindsight a wonderful thing! She also said that there was little book keeping and very little proof of purchase with receipts. This is all true but that doesn't make me guilty of committing a crime or at least I didn't think it did anyway.
Like I say I am happy to pay shortfall back but I have t even been approached with a figure!
I'm not sure if the head has just covered her own back by reporting me - which she did say she would if it came to it because she wasn't going to lose her job over me. Her words not mine. So either the accountant has found something or I have incrimated myself without realising I'm at a loss I really am!

[nemesis45]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

Thank god for that! Yes I think it's a civil matter and I have done all along. I know companies can open up cases and recover loses and that's what I was expecting them to do tbh.
I volunteered within the school doing reading and I was also a parent governor for a very short time - I didn't like it and last all of a meeting and stepped away. I didn't like it and it wasn't for me, which will clearly add to all of this.
Just to add to in my last meeting with the head she said she was gutted that she had lost me. She said she wanted in time for me to assist with PTA events and also when I felt ready again to go and read with the children. I offered so much support. I even used to go and take the children in, in a morning if there was an incident or a teacher was running late. I did baking classes, run cooking classes honestly I was there more than I was at home or at my own business because they took, took, took from me and I just kept on giving because that's the sort of person that I am and I could see additional help was needed.
I was thinking she was threatening me at first with the hope that perhaps I might admit to something but like I say, I haven't done anything, theft is a big thing in my eyes and so is fraud etc. I've never spent money without other people present and I have often asked the school for huidance and help and it hasn't been very forthcoming

There's plentiful advice on running a PTA or similar organisations online one wonders why the school did not point you in the right direction.

As asked previously have the finances now been sorted out?

nem

[Terrified please help me]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

Can I ask what happened in your case please with the police investigation? As far as I know no one has been interviewed etc yet?

[Terrified please help me]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

All I was told when I asked was I was doing a great job. We did have some contact with PTA uk but we decided not to pay the funds to them again, as funds were low and when I spoke to them they said we were doing fine too! We never told anything about money and how books should be kept. It's not just from me handling it,! It's been going on for years by the looks of it as she never seen any books from PTAs she has admitted this to me and others. She did say to keep a tight hold of things and clearly I haven't done. Like I say I have no idea what the position is with the books because I haven't been given this information, all the details I gave her showed that we owed £300 more than we had and that was it. I offered to donate the money and she refused it. She did point out again here that she didn't think I was guilty of theft and she didn't want anyone thinking that I was! So I don't understand. There was £30 that wasn't accountable on the books that I had and this figure was ongoing since March. I was told not to worry because it was such a small amount!

[nemesis45]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

All I was told when I asked was I was doing a great job. We did have some contact with PTA uk but we decided not to pay the funds to them again, as funds were low and when I spoke to them they said we were doing fine too! We never told anything about money and how books should be kept. It's not just from me handling it,! It's been going on for years by the looks of it as she never seen any books from PTAs she has admitted this to me and others. She did say to keep a tight hold of things and clearly I haven't done. Like I say I have no idea what the position is with the books because I haven't been given this information, all the details I gave her showed that we owed £300 more than we had and that was it. I offered to donate the money and she refused it. She did point out again here that she didn't think I was guilty of theft and she didn't want anyone thinking that I was! So I don't understand. There was £30 that wasn't accountable on the books that I had and this figure was ongoing since March. I was told not to worry because it was such a small amount!

How was the £300.00 deficit accrued was the PTA getting credit for goods and services?

nem

[Terrified please help me]

Re: Advice needed urgently please - legal matter

I really don't know what has happened about the £300 because I haven't been kept up to date. The school told me they were cancelling the cheque and that was it, to leave it with them. That's all the information I know. Yes it was for an event at xmas

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry I'm new to this and haven't read your question properly. Yes we were given credit for a service.