N164 Appeal help

[Bear23]

I just received Judgement on an old overdraft debt with Abbey National sold to Santandar then sold to Hoist Portfolio, I put forward a defence but I didn't attend the hearing.

The judgement was this
By Judge Cadywould at CC Colchester that upon hearing the representative for the Claimant and the Defendants not attending and not having filed any evidence IT IS ORDERED THAT XXX amount being the alleged debt and costs

I am currently filling out my appellants notice for the small claims track only. I am filling out the N194 form and have come to the section where I state grounds for appeal. Section 5

I was going to use the fact that I have a written copy from the FCA confirming that Hoist Portfolio is no longer authorised or regulated by FCA and
to state that no sufficient paperwork that was requested in my original defence has been produced. Any advice on how to word this for the appeal would be greatly appreciated?

I await your comments/advice

and thanks in advance.

[Amethyst]

Re: N164 Appeal help

That is the trouble with not attending the hearing - if you also failed to file witness statements, evidences and inform the court you weren't attending there really isn't going to be much chance of appealing.

Are Hoist Portfolio definitely no longer authorised ?

[nemesis45]

Re: N164 Appeal help

I just received Judgement on an old overdraft debt with Abbey National sold to Santandar then sold to Hoist Portfolio, I put forward a defence but I didn't attend the hearing.

The judgement was this
By Judge Cadywould at CC Colchester that upon hearing the representative for the Claimant and the Defendants not attending and not having filed any evidence IT IS ORDERED THAT XXX amount being the alleged debt and costs

I am currently filling out my appellants notice for the small claims track only. I am filling out the N194 form and have come to the section where I state grounds for appeal. Section 5

I was going to use the fact that I have a written copy from the FCA confirming that Hoist Portfolio is no longer authorised or regulated by FCA and
to state that no sufficient paperwork that was requested in my original defence has been produced. Any advice on how to word this for the appeal would be greatly appreciated?

I await your comments/advice

and thanks in advance.

Hello Bear23,

Do you not have a thread open on this subject already?

What was your defence? Without knowing exactly what you submitted it's difficult to advise fully.
Why did you not follow the courts directions to file all documents at least 14 days prior to the hearing
or at least file a witness statement covering the fact (s) that no requested documents were provided +
the PRA matter.

It seems you failed to file a witness statement and any evidence to support your claim and
Judge Cadywould only had the claimant evidence on which to make judgement.
Did you mention the " PRA licensing " matter in your defence? I don't think there is a problem with the licence anyway!

I am not convinced that an appeal will succeed.
I have to say that the judge is a very reasonable and fair judge.

nem

- - - Updated - - -

I just received Judgement on an old overdraft debt with Abbey National sold to Santandar then sold to Hoist Portfolio, I put forward a defence but I didn't attend the hearing.

The judgement was this
By Judge Cadywould at CC Colchester that upon hearing the representative for the Claimant and the Defendants not attending and not having filed any evidence IT IS ORDERED THAT XXX amount being the alleged debt and costs

I am currently filling out my appellants notice for the small claims track only. I am filling out the N194 form and have come to the section where I state grounds for appeal. Section 5

I was going to use the fact that I have a written copy from the FCA confirming that Hoist Portfolio is no longer authorised or regulated by FCA and
to state that no sufficient paperwork that was requested in my original defence has been produced. Any advice on how to word this for the appeal would be greatly appreciated?

I await your comments/advice

and thanks in advance.

Hello Bear23,

Do you not have a thread open on this subject already?

What was your defence? Without knowing exactly what you submitted it's difficult to advise fully.
Why did you not follow the courts directions to file all documents at least 14 days prior to the hearing
or at least file a witness statement covering the fact (s) that no requested documents were provided +
the PRA matter.

It seems you failed to file a witness statement and any evidence to support your claim and
Judge Cadywould only had the claimant evidence on which to make judgement.
Did you mention the " PRA licensing " matter in your defence? I don't think there is a problem with the licence anyway!

I am not convinced that an appeal will succeed.
I have to say that the judge is a very reasonable and fair judge.

nem

[Bear23]

Re: N164 Appeal help

I have correspondence from FCA to say they are no longer authorised or regulated by the FCA.
I have rang the courts and they have said I can make an order to set aside on a N244 form but unsure as to what I would put as my reasons to set this aside ?

I don't want a CCJ so would like to be able to at least be able to negotiate this!?!?

any help would be appreciated.

[nemesis45]

Re: N164 Appeal help

I have correspondence from FCA to say they are no longer authorised or regulated by the FCA.
I have rang the courts and they have said I can make an order to set aside on a N244 form but unsure as to what I would put as my reasons to set this aside ?

I don't want a CCJ so would like to be able to at least be able to negotiate this!?!?

any help would be appreciated.

Hello Bear,

A set aside is more likely to succeed in my opinion, as the judge has not made any error in the judgement that I can see, the circuit judge I think would dismiss an appeal.

N244 application £155.00 court fee.

What needs to be addressed are matters such as why you didn't file a witness statement to support your defence?

Did you not receive the courts directions?

Please tell me what you actually filed in the defence then we can see what there is to work on for set aside.

nem

[Bear23]

Re: N164 Appeal help

Thanks Nem,

I appreciate your help, here goes.

This was my defence:-
The Defendants dispute the full amount claimed by the claimant

The claimant has never supplied the Defendants with any Terms and Conditions of any kind, therefore the Defendants could not be cognisant of any charges to be applied either during the tenure of the supposed debt.

The Defendants requires the Claimant to disclose upon appearance in Court, all documents which he intends to rely upon to prove and/or substantiate his claim. This should include a Deed of Assignment, any applicable Deed of Tripartite Novation and a true copy of the Original Consumer Credit Agreement. The Consumer Credit Agreement is of particular importance, as the Defendants never received any Terms and Conditions pertaining to said agreement, therefore cannot be aware of any conditions allowing the Claimant to purchase said agreement, or impose any other charges, interest or fees associated with any applicable condition within said agreement, of which the Defendants cannot possibly have any knowledge thereof.

The Defendants requires the Claimant to produce in court, all copies of all correspondence sent by the Defendants refuting the Claimant's claims of ownership and right to pursue the Defendants for any debt, alleged or real.

In conclusion, the Claimant was offered every possible avenue to provide proof of claim by the Defendants, but failed to do so and now relies upon the court to enforce a judgement, , without the relevant means to do so, whereby the lack of terms and conditions not supplied has disallowed the Defendants any insight or knowledge of any such terms or conditions that would allow the Claimant to act in any way, shape or form, therefore any reliance upon quoted Terms and Conditions, hitherto none disclosed by the Claimant, can only be regarded as hearsay and not a matter of fact, or point of Law.

Then I sent a letter to the solicitors Howard Cohen and Co requesting CPR18. I didn't receive this information and I then sent a letter to the Courts to say that the information I requested hadn't been received and I was scared to attend Court as I thought this was just another bullying tactic from the DCA to make me pay a debt that wasn't proven.

Does the fact that they aren't FCA make a difference, some other sites say it does but this is new ground. I read this on the Financial Ombudsman website :-

Debt collectors are sometimes employed by lenders and hirers simply to trace a consumer - so the original lender or hirer can then seek repayment of the debt themselves. We can deal with a complaint relating to tracing activity by a debt collector if:

• the tracing is intended to help collect a regulated consumer-credit or consumer-hire debt; and
• after carrying out the tracing activity, the debt collector goes on to request repayment of the debt.

From 1 April 2014, tracing agents who undertake no other financial activity (such as requesting repayment of the debt) will be exempt from regulation and will not require FCA authorisation.

[MIKE770]

Re: N164 Appeal help

oh heck I spy some goodff here....?????

[Amethyst]

Re: N164 Appeal help

For ref then. http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/foru...7#.Vo04ElJvARs

[nemesis45]

Re: N164 Appeal help

I will be honest with you I'm not surprised the judge the judge gave judgement to the claimant!
I wonder if it was actually read.
PRA as a Principal uses other companies/trading styles to transact various parts of its business,
with much restructuring of companies in the UK debt industry some business entities no longer
need licences as such acting as representatives of the licenced Principal.
The FCA I am sure would have taken appropriate action as necessary.

Where did this defence come from, was it submitted in the format above?

A defence must be " fully particularised " in numbered paragraphs. with reference to
documents and requests for them.

The document that each party intends to rely on at trial must be disclosed at least 14 days prior to the hearing date:
So did your receive anything from the claimant/solicitors before the hearing date?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm trying to sort out what was requested and how.

Did you make a Formal CPR 31.14 request to the solicitors?

There is no CCA 1974 Regulated agreement for an Overdraft/ Current Account!

The Deed of Assignment is considered a confidential, commercially sensitive document
as it is the contract between the debt seller(Creditor) and the debt purchaser and even
if the claimant disclosed it, it would be severely redacted as it refers not only to your debt
but to many thousands of others.

The Novation Deed would not be of assistance.

Sending letters to the court outside the court process again has not helped your case.

Did someone individual or forum advise you to submit the defence as it is above?

I will try over the evening to see if there is any means here to apply for set aside.

Two last important questions for now when was the last payment or activity on the OD and when was the account defaulted?

nem

[Bear23]

Re: N164 Appeal help

Many thanks

[Amethyst]

Re: N164 Appeal help

Okay. Apologies Bear but I think you are going to be stuck with this CCJ and should be thinking more of applying to the court to vary the order to allow you to pay by affordable installments.

Bear - appealing will mean a court hearing, a set aside application will fail due to the procedural failings before the hearing where judgment was made, and that would require a hearing anyway. If you proceed and again don't attend you risk getting wasted costs against you.

Do you know what a 'applicable Deed of Tripartite Novation ' is ?

[Amethyst]

Re: N164 Appeal help

EDITED -

No one has said you can't use other sites Bear, at all, it's just useful to gather all the information from what's happened to date, and when a 'deed of novation' crops up it's usually quite easy to guess which other sites have been used.

EDIT : Ok, wrong end of stick notice received.... it's a stressful time xxxxx

[Bear23]

Re: N164 Appeal help

Where did this defence come from, was it submitted in the format above?

yes it was and I had used it successfully in a previous case but that didn't actually go to court.


The document that each party intends to rely on at trial must be disclosed at least 14 days prior to the hearing date:
So did your receive anything from the claimant/solicitors before the hearing date?

No

Sorry for all the questions but I'm trying to sort out what was requested and how.

Did you make a Formal CPR 31.14 request to the solicitors?

I sent a CPR 18 request

There is no CCA 1974 Regulated agreement for an Overdraft/ Current Account! - I know that now :-(

Two last important questions for now when was the last payment or activity on the OD and when was the account defaulted?

The last payment into the account was made in August 2007 but the court proceedings went ahead before the six years were up.

[nemesis45]

Re: N164 Appeal help

No one has said you can't use other sites Bear, at all, it's just useful to gather all the information from what's happened to date, and when a 'deed of novation' crops up it's usually quite easy to guess which other sites have been used.

EDIT : Ok, wrong end of stick notice received.... it's a stressful time xxxxx

[MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] do you want me to leave this to you now?

I've read and reread this so many times and cannot fault the
judgement or find any grounds for a set aside application and
an appeal is doomed to fail as the judge has made no error (s).

nem

[Amethyst]

Re: N164 Appeal help

I don't think I can advise any differently to you Nem.