Charging order and possession

[urgenthelp]

Re: Charging order and possession

ok, lets row back and look at your income. You say you have two young adults in the house. Are they students? Working? On benefits? How much are they contributing to the house.

If there is no CCJ, then the claim needs to be defended. If there is a CCJ, we need to know what the judgment says.

Presumably there has been a CCJ - did you defend the case? What monthly payment was set?

You say your mother's assets ran out - do she died with no estate at all? Was there no local authority funding?

Can you give some details about your house and mortgage:
- approx value of the house?
£165,000 and yes, there is equity in the house. First time in my life I have wished there wasn't! There is about 11 and a half years left to run on it.

- is the house in joint names?
Yes, with my husband

- is this debt in your name only?
Yes, it is. Ironically it was only myself, not my brother and I jointly who signed her agreement and as I say I allowed myself to not read things carefully, take the word of the DM my Uncle, Aunt and I spoke to and really didn't know AT ALL that I was taking responsibility. I know that ignorance is no defence, I am just saying it as it's true (irrelevant, but true!)

- how large is the mortgage? are there any secured loans, if so in whose names?
The only secured loan is the remainder of the mortgage itself and the mortgage co itself (sub prime) has a charge on it for the outstanding amount as we are paying off rent arrears from when we both had periods of unemployment over the last couple of years. We are paying an additional £400 a month almost to try and catch up and that ends in 2017.

- is the mortgage repayment or interest only? when will it end?
The mortgage is repayment and will end around 2026 I believe.

- how large are the arrears on the mortgage and what arrangement, if any, have you reached with the lender?
We have just under £6,000 in arrears and are paying an overpayment towards the debt over about 2 and a half years now I think of between £350 and £400 a month. The arrears is a drop in the ocean compared to what the care home are looking for and that's without their solicitors costs which they say will be over £30,000...

How large are your other debts and how much are you paying a month to them?
We have about £15,000 in other debts - lots of smaller ones - some council tax, some student loan, both of which are deducted from earnings at source. We are currently working with CAB to try and sort out payment plans. This is proving difficult because of the court date and this large debt looming.

As I said, there is no CCJ to my knowledge (and I am sure this is not something I would have forgotten about) but I seem to believe that as the debt is over £25,000 this could be why it has gone to court.

I don't know how to 'defend' and if it is going to have a cost to it then I am pretty much up a creek... If it means writing letters though then I can get on to that tomorrow and post them out by registered mail on Monday. I am very conscious that many solicitors and courts are likely to be closing down for Christmas next Friday - although I may be mistaken about that.

There are two young adults in the house but neither has been working full time or for very long due to a range issues. They give a small contribution when they are able to and have enough but up to now it has not been a set amount. It can vary between £30 a week and £45 a week depending (neither has a set contract so some weeks they don't work at all - not their choice).

[Debt Camel]

Re: Charging order and possession

OK, thanks for the answers, the only one you missed was how large the mortgage and mortgage arrears are... that will give how large the equity is in the house.

You can check your Noddle account for free - if that shows a CCJ then you have a CCJ. If it doesn't, I am afraid I think it is worth spending £4 on Trust Online to get this confirmed. credit Records are just not reliable enough for a matter which is both large and urgent. Until you can say this, we can't suggest what immediate actions you need to take. We can talk about how to defend a CCJ but at the moment we simply don't know if this is past that stage.

If you have attachments of earnings it is pretty unlikely that you are going to be able to offer very much of a monthly payment towards this debt.

It should be possible to get your mortgage arrears re-scheduled over the life time of the mortgage, which would be a large monthly saving - although this would in the long run be more costly as you would be paying interest on these. Has CAB talked to you about this?

You said you offered 3 months fees - how much was this? What was their recent reply? It may have been "See you in court", but can you confirm this?

Have you talked to other members of your family? You mention brother, uncle, aunt. If every one could chip in 5k then you would have the makings of a decent settlement offer.

I am not unsympathetic to the problems of young adults at the moment, especially if they have had mental health issues, but they do need to face the facts of life - contributing more to the household is not optional - it needs to be averaging £50 a week so that is going to be a lot more in the weeks they are working to make up for the ones they aren't.

Do you have a spare room? Getting a lodger would start to generate some more income that you desperately need even if this debt goes away!

[urgenthelp]

Re: Charging order and possession

Hi, thank you for your response. I did put about the mortgage and arrears above which is £165,000 approx with about £90,000 remaining and just under £6,000 of arrears being repaid over two and a half years. We have a sub prime lender who refused to put the arrears over the life of the mortgage and went straight to repossession until we came up with this offer.

We do not have a spare room.

My brother doesn't work so it unlikely that he would be able to contribute much toward the debt, although I am going to meet with him to ask if there's anything he could offer. My Uncle has been seriously ill with cancer and this is not a situation that I could present them with. We simply aren't that close and they have no stake in the situation.
You were asking about defending the claim: I think I had said previously that I engaged a solicitor at first who already put together a defence which they rejected. Obviously however I still have that defence and will take it along to court - not that I know if it will do any good. There is no way I can afford to engage a lawyer again, sadly so it will just be myself and my husband in court.
I have offered basically just over a third of the claim which was substantially more than the solicitor advised me to do. This was based on the fact that we paid until the end of the January and didn't have the meeting with the Acc Man and DM at the home until April where they were told her funds had all but gone and I was assured that when the manager returned from holiday the chasing of LA would be turned over to her to arrange funding. The amount covers those months in between. It took their solicitors over 3 months and countless e mails and phone calls to even acknowledge this and say 'This is rejected' which came yesterday. They say all other offers must be in writing and with supporting evidence of financial position etc. They fully know that with the Christmas and New Year close down that this will not allow for time to negotiate. They have said they fully anticipate a possession order being granted against us at the court.

[Debt Camel]

Re: Charging order and possession

We have a sub prime lender who refused to put the arrears over the life of the mortgage and went straight to repossession until we came up with this offer.

do you have a suspended possession order?

who already put together a defence which they rejected.

could you post a copy?

I still have that defence and will take it along to court

At the moment we don't know if the court date is for a CCJ hearing or a possession order. It's vital you find this out as soon as possible.

I have offered basically just over a third of the claim

where would this money have come from?

[urgenthelp]

Re: Charging order and possession

OK, well it would appear that I am completely wrong and that there is a CCJ on this debt. It did not suggest a payment plan or anything, just that the judgement was for them.

The money to make any offer of payment would come from my wages as a loan is not an option to us and we have no credit cards. I have asked my brother if he could get a small loan at all to help, however as he isn't working the answer was as suspected: No. At least I know I asked.

The hearing is because of the CCJ and also the interim charging order, so yes, it is basically 'see you in court'.

My husband is joint owner of the house, on the mortgage as first named. He will not agree to the sale as neither of us knew that the form I signed was as guarantor and he has no part in the debt itself. I am aware with hindsight that I should have taken much more notice of the small print, but hindsight is everything.

I believe that due to the arrears on the house that there may well be a suspended possession order for Kensington, our mortgage company, however we are up to date with all the agreement payments on this. I don't believe there is a suspended possession order for the nursing home debt.

Does the fact that my husband has no part of the debt against him and will refuse to sell have any bearing on what the court can order in terms of the court case against me? Can they still force sale if he disagrees and is not the debtor?

Thank you very much for all your advice so far.

[Debt Camel]

Re: Charging order and possession

OK at least things are a bit clearer.

Did you ever file a defence to the CCJ or was a judgment given in default? Were you not told when the hearing date would be? Can you dig out what your defence would have been and put it up here. Hopefully [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] will then be able to say if there is anything that can be done about the CCJ.

Was the order to play the whole amount immediately? Did you submit an income & expenditure form? If you didn't even if the CCJ cant be challenged, the order can be varied so that you can pay monthly.

This is important because if you make the CCJ payments, then the creditor will not be able to get an Order for sale.

More about charging orders and orders for sale here: https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/...spx#quicklink8

Does the fact that my husband has no part of the debt against him and will refuse to sell have any bearing on what the court can order in terms of the court case against me?

You can use this in court to argue that the charging order would be unfair. In practice as your share of the equity is larger than the debt (can you confirm how big the debt is?) the judge may not be interested in this argument.

Can they still force sale if he disagrees and is not the debtor?

Yes. But Orders for Sale are VERY rare.

Finally I have to say I think you need debt advice on ALL your debts. You have a sub prime mortgage with arrears, CT arrears, other unsecured debts. It is impossible for us to say how much you should be offering to pay monthly to this CCJ. Renegotiating the mortgage arrears so they are spread over the lifetime of the mortgage may be possible (ask CAB about "the Norgan rule") which would free up quite a lot of money. But with two attachment of earnings I simply can't say if it is going to be possible for you to struggle through for the years it will take - I don't know if you have a secure enough budget to be able to start the next financial year paying your council tax for example. It may be necessary for you to give up, sell the house, for your husband to keep his share of the equity and for you to look at insolvency.