New member! My experience of being taken to court and with bailiffs....

[jimmay]

I wanted to join so i can describe my experience with bailiffs and being taken to court etc which I hope someone will find useful!

Firstly, this is a civil matter involving myself and my partner and neighbours (who have now moved) in a dispute about a right of access which runs round the back of our houses.

We had just moved in, and these neighbours would wander round as and when they felt like it, into and through our garden when we had guests or were in the garden for whatever reason and would just come barging through unannounced (which is actually not how the access should be used, we even sought legal advice to ask if we could erect a gate and according to the solicitor we used he said we are well within our rights to do so)..so we did. They werent the nicest of neighbours, and were quite aggressive and nasty and we felt better knowing they couldnt just appear out of nowhere. So the gate went up, and so it began...

Solicitors letters came through thick and fast, and back and forth it went until they eventually took us to court (AND our solicitor got shut down for dishonest practice in the process, leaving us with no representation!!) and we couldnt afford to use another one.

Long and short of it, we got taken to court (to be honest we didnt take it seriously as it was over a gate!) and they were awarded damages and also we had to pay their legal fees (total amount around £9,000) - cue the laughs at the ridiculousness.

After the court hearing, their solicitors demanded we pay in full, to which we replied sorry we do not have the ability to pay in full, please can you arrange a payment plan with your clients = no response.

We then received a letter from the solicitors to say pay in full (again) - to which we replied the same thing, again with no response.

we offered THREE times to arrange a payment plan, and each time the claimants didnt accept and/or just ignored.

We came home one day to find a High Court Enforcement agent had been to our home and had put a letter through the door to seize goods as the judgement had still not been paid and he would come back AT ANY TIME to seize goods again, and even in our absence!

He came back another time and knocked (VERY early in the morning, so we were in bed) and I opened the window (through fear it was him again) and looked down and he looked up and said he has put a letter through the door...and then he walked off.

We were visited a third time (we werent home) with another letter.

We received a FOURTH letter, saying as we have refused to pay the amount owed, and have failed to set up installments payment plan, they MAY have to instruct their clients to make us bankrupt.

We were taken to court in may, and this has all happened in that time. I am not too sure on the process but we have spoken to some legal sources who have said it is unusual for this to happen so quickly, as in too quick for bailiffs/hceo's to start turning up. its been a mess to say the least.

We have applied to the court to get it made official that we can pay in installments as there is no way we can afford the full amount in one go, and I think it is unreasonable NOT to negotiate at all, whereas we have been more than reasonable - and I ask myself why when we have been bludgeoned at every turn!! We should have just been difficult - would have made no difference it seems!

It appears, after doing so much research, that the court favour mediation first - at NO point did they try to speak with us directly to resolve any issues, despite numerous attempts by us to talk to them!! They just chose to use solicitors.

Thats where we currently stand!

[Amethyst]

Re: New member! My experience of being taken to court and with bailiffs....

Sounds like you were a bit poorly advised by your solicitor there. If there was a right of access across the rear of your property then yes a gate can be installed but it would need to be kept unlocked (for access). Really depends on what is in the deeds of the property. Presumably you obtained these and the solicitor went through them ? Did he write your defence ? ( be interested to see it and the original claim )

You attended the court hearing and lost, received a forthwith payment order and have applied to pay the judgment by installments now?

Bailiffs can be instructed quite soon after a judgment - if it is not paid (or an installment order applied for ) within 28 days they can obtain a warrant of enforcement, which after you have had notice of for, I think 14 days, they can instruct bailiffs to retreive the judgment money from you.

[nemesis45]

Re: New member! My experience of being taken to court and with bailiffs....

Hi Welcome to LB,
All the claimant has to do is pay a fee and instruct HCEO's to enforce the judgement and as say they can come at anytime.
Did you inform the court via your application of the claimants intransigence regarding a payment arrangement?
The court may ask for an Income & Expenditure statement ( for the household).
The solicitor (s) which was shut down presumably gave you the wrong advice was this part ot the reason for closing them down?
Did you complain to the Solicitors Regulation Authority?

nem.

[ploddertom]

Re: New member! My experience of being taken to court and with bailiffs....

Bailiffs can be instructed quite soon after a judgment - if it is not paid (or an installment order applied for ) within 28 days they can obtain a warrant of enforcement, which after you have had notice of for, I think 14 days, they can instruct bailiffs to retreive the judgment money from you.

For instructing HCEOs this can be done the same day Judgment is made if the Judgment Creditor so wishes. All this is required is Judgment in their favour over £600 & not a debt regulated by the CCA. Some Judges may frown on this as having not given sufficient time to come to an agreement but it is done and more regularly than you may think.

- - - Updated - - -

I note you have applied to pay in affordable instalments = assume you have done this on Form N245 but have you also applied for a Stay of Execution - Form N244 - against the HCEO?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: New member! My experience of being taken to court and with bailiffs....

A costs order can be enforced in the same way as a CCJ, so it is very important to set up repayment plan that you can afford, otherwise they could enforce in ways other than HCEOs, such as by issuing a statutory demand :scared: and/or applying for a charging order on your home. :eek2:

Have you already submitted a form to the court to pay the order in installments? http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.u...s/n245-eng.pdf If not you should do so.

With the HCEOs, you'll have to apply for a stay of execution using an N244. See this: https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/...t/Page-05.aspx

This application should be made to the court that issued the writ of control. You will have to pay a fee to make the application. Explain that you are requesting a stay of execution, with an offer of payment. This could be by instalments or a lump-sum payment of the whole amount by a certain date.

• You need to provide an ‘affidavit of means’ or a ‘witness statement’ with your application for a stay of execution.
• An affidavit of means is a financial statement, written in a specific form. See the example later in this fact sheet.
• The affidavit has to be ‘sworn’, for example, before a court officer, a solicitor unconnected with the case, a commissioner for oaths or a justice of the peace (JP). You will usually have to pay a small fee for this.
• A ‘witness statement’ is very similar to an affidavit, but instead of swearing it, you sign a ‘statement of truth’. There is no fee for this, so you may prefer to use this method.

explain your circumstances

In the affidavit or witness statement, describe any special circumstances which you feel would make it unfair for the judgment to be enforced by HCEOs. Also, give details of any property you own and any other debts you owe.

• In the affidavit or witness statement, describe any special circumstances which you feel would make it unfair for the judgment to be enforced by HCEOs. Also, give details of any property you own and any other debts you owe.
• Make three copies of the N244 and send (by first class recorded delivery), or take them to the court along with your affidavit of means or witness statement and the fee.
• Ask for a hearing date as part of your application. The court will then set a hearing date and give you notice of this when they send the application form back to you.
• You must then post (again by first-class recorded post), or take the form N244, notice of hearing and affidavit of means or witness statement to the creditor or their solicitor

[jimmay]

Re: New member! My experience of being taken to court and with bailiffs....

I am not necessarily challenging the any of the enforcement process as I understand bailiffs can pretty much do as they please, but I dont appreciate being hounded in this way when we have been more than reasonable and offered to pay in installments - it hasnt even got to the point of negotiation where we could look at an acceptable repayment - it went straight to enforcement.

the claimants are the most unreasonable and belligerent people, and dealing with people like that is a real problem.

The only reason anyone takes anyone to court is to get money and I think it's pure greed.

We have applied to the court to pay in installments and we have also requested a stay of execution.

- - - Updated - - -

We were VERY poorly advised as he advised us to keep it locked to deter them, breaks my heart writing that as I now know we cannot do so. Yes we have applied to pay in installments as we simply do not have that kind of money to pay in one go - who does!?

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We have put in a claim with the solicitors regulation authoirty yes who are dealing with the matter. I hope there's something in it (though I am not too hopeful) as without that wrong advice we wouldnt have proceeded in the way in which we did. We have applied to the courts with statement of means and requested stay of execution. Waiting to hear back.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: New member! My experience of being taken to court and with bailiffs....

I am not necessarily challenging the any of the enforcement process as I understand bailiffs can pretty much do as they please,

Actually, you'll find that's not the case, there are regulations they have to follow. They rely on people not being well informed about them.

We were VERY poorly advised as he advised us to keep it locked to deter them, breaks my heart writing that as I now know we cannot do so. Yes we have applied to pay in installments as we simply do not have that kind of money to pay in one go - who does!?

We have put in a claim with the solicitors regulation authoirty yes who are dealing with the matter. I hope there's something in it (though I am not too hopeful) as without that wrong advice we wouldnt have proceeded in the way in which we did. We have applied to the courts with statement of means and requested stay of execution. Waiting to hear back.

I assume it would have been referred to the Legal Ombudsman who are the ones who actually deal with complaints about poor service from your own solicitors and they can even get you compensation.

With regards to the costs order, did the solicitors (the “Receiving” party) ever send you a Bill of Costs and a Schedule of Costs (a complete breakdown of the Bill)? If so, you could have applied for a Detailed Assessment of those costs.

If they didn’t, you, as the “Paying” party, can seek an order to force them to do that. While a Detailed Costs Assessment application is outstanding there can be no enforcement. That's something you may want to look into in more detail. I'm not in possession of all the facts but £9,000 in legal costs to dispute a locked gate sounds a bit excessive. :mmph:

I know someone who has been challenging a costs order for a similar amount, although sadly they can't come here and post up, they seem to be get somewhere with the challenge.

As I posted above, if you are a homeowner, they could easily apply for a charging order to secure the costs order on your home. They can do that even if you have an installment plan in place and don't break it. Whilst the bailiff issue may be the most pressing one at this point, it's still worth looking into the underlying costs order. I don't think it would go away completely but the amount could well be reduced to a more manageable and reasonable sum. :thumb:

[jimmay]

Re: New member! My experience of being taken to court and with bailiffs....

Can you please clarify what you mean when you mention underlying costs order and making it more reasonable or reduced? Thanks

[FlamingParrot]

Re: New member! My experience of being taken to court and with bailiffs....

Can you please clarify what you mean when you mention underlying costs order and making it more reasonable or reduced? Thanks

I was referring to how the amount was determined, i.e. how did they arrive at the £9k figure? There should have been a breakdown of all the costs as I mentioned above, they can't just say: "you owe us £9k in legal costs". So far you have been given advice about dealing with the immediate threat of enforcement of the order, however, it may be possible to dispute the amount of costs that you have been ordered to pay rather than just making arrangements to pay them off. That's why I asked whether you had received Bill of Costs and a Schedule of Costs. :thumb:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: New member! My experience of being taken to court and with bailiffs....

With regards to Detailed Costs Assessments, you may want to look at Part 47 of the CPR: https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...led-assessment

Sanction for delay in commencing detailed assessment proceedings

47.8
(1) Where the receiving party fails to commence detailed assessment proceedings within the period specified –

(a) in rule 47.7; or

(b) by any direction of the court,
the paying party may apply for an order requiring the receiving party to commence detailed assessment proceedings within such time as the court may specify.

(2) On an application under paragraph (1), the court may direct that, unless the receiving party commences detailed assessment proceedings within the time specified by the court, all or part of the costs to which the receiving party would otherwise be entitled will be disallowed.

(3) If –
(a) the paying party has not made an application in accordance with paragraph (1); and
(b) the receiving party commences the proceedings later than the period specified in rule 47.7,
the court may disallow all or part of the interest otherwise payable to the receiving party under –

The receiving party would be the solicitors, the paying party yourselves. The period specified is three months as below:

Judgment, direction, order, award or other determination	3 months after the date of the judgment etc. Where detailed assessment is stayed pending an appeal, 3 months after the date of the order lifting the stay