Hi im new here and desperate for help.

[Vangry]

I need some advice. Almost a year ago i put a 2013 caravan in part exchange for another one. The reason i did this was because i wanted to live in it. I knew you could live on site at this park because lots do I told the salesman i wanted to live on the site and he shown me a lodge and a caravan. He told me lots of things about the site which influenced me to want to live on the site which i later found out were untrue. I put my 2013 caravan in part exchange for a 2014 caravan in this site. I was supposed to get £17.000 in part ex for my caravan. I put down £24.500 deposit and the salesman was arranging the remainder as finance with Barclays Partnee finance. What i didnt know was that over £32.000 had been taken out as a loan and the rest was what i had given them un cash. It worked out that i haddnt been given anything for my 2013 caravan. They had paid my balance off of £32.000 and took out another loan for the same amount as the new caravan. This has caused me endless sleepless nights as i was told weeks later that i could not live on the site i could not go to work from the site i could not leave my dog alone in the caravan etc. This story is so long. It went to an financial adjudicator and it took nearly 6 months for them to tell me that as far as they were concerned i hadnt read the small print so it was my own fault. Whatever happened to verbal commitment. I agree i didnt read the small print because i trusted the sales man he fell over himself to be nice to me. His wife even told me where to go to get a job. I even went to the newspaper but they just denied everything. My quote was for £453 for 72 months but they had got me finance for 120 months at £453. There is so much to this story its just unbelievable. I asked them to buy the caravan back they said no.( why should they buy it back when they knew the caravan was of no use to me and before long they would have it for next to nothing). They have even laughed at me telling me they will see me in court. Its broke my heart.

[sean5302]

Re: Hi im new here and desperate for help.

Hello Vangry and welcome to LB.
I hope you have now read "the small print".
What does your contract say?
Which financial adjudicator did you go to and what does the judgment say?
We'll try to help you but will need much more detail.

[Vangry]

Re: Hi im new here and desperate for help.

Hi Sean thankyou for the support. Yes well i have read the small print now. Obviously it states on the contract that your caravan is your holiday home. They told me i could live on site but i have to have my post delivered elsewhere. They told me there was 24 hour security when the cameras dont work and the security guard goes home at 2am. This was relavent to me as i am 56 and live alone. They brought the new rules out on 1st October and enlarged them so it was plain to see. There are over 100 people moved off the site most just handed there keys in. There are caravans everywhere. This has been the result of the council finding out that people are living on the site and not paying council tax.The owners then changed the rules to force people off.. The site then get left with all the caravans and resell them. Its a scam. Everyone has been told they can live there.. They were still telling people that they could live there up until i left 4 weeks ago. My caravan is just left there and i am paying £453 a month for it. The consumers put me on to the financial ombudsman, the financial ombudsman/adjudicator had all the facts wrong it was unbeluevable. When i sent her a reply she didnt even acknowedge my email. It was a year ago yesterday when i put a deposit on the caravan. My daughter was with me at the time of purchase and she has also written evidence to say i was told icould live there and about the lies i was told. I can answer any questions you need. My problem is i cant get anyone else to speak up as they are all scared of repurcussions. There was another couple who were elderly and they were being evicted because they were living on the site. They had bought a lodge for £90.000 to live in then they were told they were being evicted. They were in the paper as well. A good samaritan offered them a place for a very cheap rent so they found a way out. And got to keep their lodge on the site. They then decided not to pursue the complaint against the park in case they were told they had to leave.so i was on my own again.the only witness was my daughter. Sorry about the spelling but im on a mobil and i can barely see. Will get my Laptop out. The adjudicator said she could not uphold my complaint as she was satusfied that the site had paid off my existing balance. And the quote i was given was just a quote from the site but seen as i was getting finance frim BPF it was different. OMG it was them who got me the loan. The adjudicator also said the payments came out at 10 years instead of 6years as initially i said i was paying cash? Oh yes i walk around with £58.000 in my pocket. I was devastated when i got the decision.

[sean5302]

Re: Hi im new here and desperate for help.

Very sorry to read this.
I read that my local council, the East Riding of Yorkshire Council has done a very similar exercise recently. They had people who lived in their caravans all year round and had done for years.
Once the ERYC found out about it they immediately issued stop notices and the matter went to the High Court.
Can you post up the contract you have signed, removing personal details?
We need to see various things, including the rights of the site owner to change the terms and conditions, the ability to live there as a holiday home only, or domestically.
We'll do our best to help you.

[Vangry]

Re: Hi im new here and desperate for help.

Hi Sean thankyou, will send what i can off my laptop. The thing with this park is that they knew for years that they should have been doing this because the police and council officials went onto the site, but even after that they kept telling people they could live their but have their post sent to a relative or get a po box.i got a Po box They need to get a sale and they tell you anything to get that sale then they blatently deny it they told me it was a five star site and they didnt have any stars.. I will send documents if i can figure out how to do it. Thankyou.

[sean5302]

Re: Hi im new here and desperate for help.

There is a legal difference between a caravan park home and a caravan site home.
I know it's only one word difference, but all the difference to the position of those affected.

Taken from the ERYC website, www.ERYC.Gov.uk


Perhaps you need to stay within a static caravan throughout the entire year? In this case, you could live in a caravan park home. This option might be the best for you, depending on your needs and what you are looking for. This will usually mean buying a static caravan from the owners of the park, then renting the pitch from them and pay a few fees to live there. This will include maintenance fees, council tax and utility bills.

Another option is to live in a static caravan site home, which is a holiday home for caravans. This means that the licence for the site only lasts for around 10 months of the year. During 2-3 months of the year you will need to leave your caravan.
Because of this, your caravan will not be a permanent residence and you will not be able to use your address on the electoral role. With this type of setup you will need to pay for pitch rental fees, as well as a maintenance service on top of the costs of the bills.

[Vangry]

Re: Hi im new here and desperate for help.

Hi Sean Yes I am aware of that now, as I am actually living on a Residential Park where I pay council tax and also ground rent and water combined.
I may seem really naïve and Yes I am and bought the Static caravan because I thought that I could live there on that park. I didn't understand at the time about different Parks I thought as long as I paid Council tax and my bills it was ok. The park is open 52 weeks a year therefor that is why I went there. I had informed the salesman that I was selling my home to live in the caravan several times. Not once did he inform me that I could not live in the caravan. He actually took me to see a lodge but I preferred the caravan. There are actually 5 residential plots on the park but I only found out this information later on. They are filled anyway. I just went along with what I was told and trusted what the Salesman had informed me.

[Vangry]

Re: Hi im new here and desperate for help.

Hi Sean,

I was sure how to attach but had a go.

Regards Virginia

[Vangry]

Re: Hi im new here and desperate for help.

Oh it looks like I managed it. This new site rules have been made much bigger since I purchased the caravan and as you can see before they were in small print but I should have read them anyway. They have been highlighted by Golden Sands to prove a point.

[sean5302]

Re: Hi im new here and desperate for help.

From what you have written, they seem to have really stitched you up.
Condition 4.2 and the "IMPORTANT SMALL PRINT" really have you out on a limb.
Even with independent witnesses, I cannot see a Judge over-riding what you have signed.
So, that part of the deal seems a total loss. For a couple of months each year you will have to live somewhere else, I'm afraid.

The other part concerns what has happened to your original caravan and also what deal you have entered into to buy a newer one.
What documents have you in relation to that, please?

- - - Updated - - -

Oh it looks like I managed it. This new site rules have been made much bigger since I purchased the caravan and as you can see before they were in small print but I should have read them anyway. They have been highlighted by Golden Sands to prove a point.

Golden Sands has been taken over by Haven Holidays.
I used to ride past the one at Filey, East Yorks.
They used to have a great reputation but I don't think they still have.

[Vangry]

Re: Hi im new here and desperate for help.

Thanks for your message Sean. Yes they have stitched me up all right, any honest person would have said when I was chatting about living there :oh you cant live on the site: I can not scan my other paperwork as my scanner isn't working. What happened was that I was asked by the Salesman how much I could put down as a deposit. I stated £24.500. The Salesman agreed to pay off the settlement figure of £32812.16 on my caravan which was a 2013 Europa Sequioa. I had paid £45.000 for this Caravan in Sept 2013 and put 11.500 deposit on it. The caravan salesman written down on a sales invoice document that I would be given £17,000 part ex for my caravan and they said they would pay the cash settlement figure off to BPF. It was written that I would give them £24.500 deposit which was £1000 that day and the remaining £23.500 when they had secured the new loan for the new caravan. I was given a quotation which said I would be paying £453.68 for 72months. I agreed that the quote was ok and that I would have the caravan I signed the paperwork on 25-04-2013 shook hands with the manager who asked me if I felt like I had been pushed into doing something that I didn't want to do which I said no. We didn't go through the paperwork as he said he had.
I went home to Leigh and got a call after a week or so to say the finance had been set up and would I pay the remaining £23.500. What I didn't know at this point was that another sales invoice had been written out 18 days after stating I had paid £24.500 cash and the rest of the caravan was on a loan from BPF for £32812.16. This meant that I had not received any money for my 2013 caravan as agreed. when I found this paper I had signed it (apparently) I hadn't dated it or written my name in block capitals. I dont even now how I got possession of this invoice, I now had 2 invoices with different amounts in them. As I thought I was living at the caravan at the time the next time I went home to collect my post I found out that a loan had been taken out for me which was 120 months at £453.69 a month which was an extra 4 years to pay. This was the fist devastating news because I had been duped. the second was to come when I found out that the caravan was not fit for purpose.

[sean5302]

Re: Hi im new here and desperate for help.

I'm really shocked.
I've had to sit and think about this.
You actually paid £11,500 for your original van, plus £33,500 on finance. Just one year later they gave you part ex of £17,000 and agreed to pay off £32,812.16 of loan settlement, looking like a very good deal. They seemed to be giving you £49,812.16 for your van which had only cost you £45,000.
If something looks too good to be true.....
I'm sorry that I'm not clear on the new van finance. (I'm a bloke, sorry). I think this might be where the financial confusion arises.
You paid £1,000 and there was £23,500 to be financed. I think you mean your deposit is this £24,500 and there is another £24,500 to be financed, meaning the new van is priced at £49,000.
£453.69 per month for 72 months is £32,666 bearing out exactly what you say when taking into account the likely interest. The extra 48 months will cost £21,777 so I don't understand where that has come from.
We need to see your documents to understand further, please.
I just can't believe the sums you've been charged. Frightening money for caravans, nice as they will be.

[Vangry]

Re: Hi im new here and desperate for help.

Yes a marvellous deal if you actually get it. They sold my caravan in just over a week for £42.000 to a lady I got to know it was immaculate. It looks like the first salesman was that eager to sell the caravan to me that he put the wrong figures down or he deliberately conned me yet again. I have to add that at the time of purchasing the caravan I wasn't well and this subsequently led to me having to get support from the mental health team at the hospital. Some of the time they could have conned me and I wouldn't have even known. its only been since February really that I have got my head around what they were doing to me. Christmas week they sent me a letter saying they remembered telling me that I couldn't live on the site as I told them I had just lost my husband. oh my god this was complete fabrication. when I went in about the letter I was threatened with eviction the police and for my caravan to be disconnected. The General manager was holding the door open for me repeatedly shouting byeee see you in court. To them its all a big joke because they always win. I will try and see if I can send you the invoices off my phone.

[Vangry]

Re: Hi im new here and desperate for help.

[sean5302]

Re: Hi im new here and desperate for help.

Oh my Goodness.
Firstly, all your personal info is on view to anyone reading this thread.
I suggest that you delete your attachments now.
Secondly, the APR interest rate on the loan is 11.7%. That seems ridiculously high.
Thirdly, the loan is for 10 years ie 120 months with a larger payment at the end.
It may well be that you were ill during this transaction but I really can't see any way out of it. Everything looks to be in order and the loan details seem clear.
I hope that some of my colleagues might read the thread and try and assist us both, but what I'm seeing looks watertight.
What a mess.