Need help with Legal Recovery Company

[CleverClogs]

Re: Need help with Legal Recovery Company

Sorry Charitynjw I didn't aznswer your question.... Yes Apex want to change the court order agreement.... they either want me to pay a lup sum of £1300....full and final payment... I can't afford a 1/3 of this...they sugested I ask family or friends...as if I would...

It is interesting that they should suggest that, as such a suggestion completely ignores the Guidance Notes from the OFT - PDF link here - see section 2.6.

They then said I had to complete a personal Budget form for them within 30 days.

This is, of course, utter nonsense or, as some lawyers liked to say before M'Lord Woolf started his reforms, stercus bovi.

Only a court could compel you to provide such information and Apex won't pay for that even to be attempted.

I rang my local County Court as was told that as I was keeping up the payments, they - APEX would need to go back to the court if they wanted to vary the mothly payments.

Exactly so. Debt collectors tell lies.

There was something else I wondered about. If I do have to complete a budget form at some point,

You won't.

is it just my income that is taken into account or mine AND my husbands, even thought it is not his debt?????..... APex are very keen to find out any info about hubby...

Tell them nothing, even if he is Strephon, the son of the eponymous Iolanthe and therefore blessed with sufficient fairy aunts to afflict Apex with a plague of genital boils.

[Ceejaylo]

Re: Need help with Legal Recovery Company

Oooooooooo Cleverclogs, "a plague of genital boils" very painful :-)

Many, Many thanks for those words they are a great comfort. I am am adult and I (mostly) think like an adult, but just sometimes, some people, (Apex) can turn my logical brain into a mess of grey sludg. I will write to Black Horse and let you know what they say.... CJ XX

[charitynjw]

Re: Need help with Legal Recovery Company

Oooooooooo Cleverclogs, "a plague of genital boils" very painful :-)

Many, Many thanks for those words they are a great comfort. I am am adult and I (mostly) think like an adult, but just sometimes, some people, (Apex) can turn my logical brain into a mess of grey sludg. I will write to Black Horse and let you know what they say.... CJ XX

Preceded, of course, by rivers of blood, frogs, lice, flies, & disease on livestock...........

Btw, that would be 100% boil coverage for them............

[Ceejaylo]

Re: Need help with Legal Recovery Company

I have finally received a copy of the Notice of Assignment letter from Apex. It says
,

"Apex Credit Management Limited has purchased your (my) account and all rights, interests and claims in respect of all amounts outstanding as of 27th November 2010, have been assigned to Apex Collections Limited and your account has been assigned to our in-house legal department, Pinnacle Legal Recoveries, for review for possible legal action.


What legal action could they take in view of the fact that I have not defaulted on my repayments as set out in the CCJ? I also note that they talk of two companies.... Apex Credit Management haveing purchased the debt and yet Apex Collections Limitedas having all rights, interests and claims in respect amounts outstanding (the debt). What does this mean? Confusing!


It continues,

"We understand that Black Horse has previously secured a County Court Judgment against you. Please be advised that non-payment of the account may result in further legal action".


Again, I have never defaulted on payment to United Dominion Trust. They then say they would like to avoid this action and request I telephone them to discuss my account and arrive at a mutually agreeable repayment plan.

As I said previously, Apex attributed this debt to Black Horse Finance who I have never had any dealings with, although I later found out that United Dominion Trust was taken over by them (no idea when). Also the BHF reference number does not agree with any reference or account number I have for the debt I owe to United Dominion Trust, which makes me even more reluctant to send any payments to Apex until I am convinced we are talking about the Debt I owe to United Dominion Trust.


1. I guess this is the "Hello letter". Does this letter contain all that is required in an Official Notice of Assignment?
2. Should I still have had a "Goodbye" letter from Black Horse Finance?
3. Does this mean Apex now have Absolute Assignment, that they have all rights and duties, rather than Apex being Agents of Black Horse?

[Garlok]

Re: Need help with Legal Recovery Company

Hi CJ,

just a quick thought, I think I would send them "a prove it then letter". If your payments are up to date then they are going to have one heck of a job to get that court order varied. they might even lose something including having to pay your costs.

Anyone could make up such a letter and as you have been informed DCAs tell lies.

And yes to your question if they have purchased the debt in absolute then they have also inherited ALL of the responsibilities, liabilies and obligations of the ORIGINAL agreement.

Hence "prove it where are the copy documents? Mr apex?" they won't have any and will make it up and get it wrong then they are up a creek without paddles and frozen in.

regards
Garlok

[Ceejaylo]

Re: Need help with Legal Recovery Company

Question? I have found a couple of Prove it letter templates and they all mention that I should send a fee of £1 for the info, (original copy of Credit Agreement and Statement fo Account) ...is this still the case??

[CleverClogs]

Re: Need help with Legal Recovery Company

Question? I have found a couple of Prove it letter templates and they all mention that I should send a fee of £1 for the info, (original copy of Credit Agreement and Statement fo Account) ...is this still the case??

Yes.

My previous reply concerned your request for a statement of account under section 77A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, for which no fee is payable by the debtor.

If you are now seeking a copy of the original agreement under section 77 of the Act, a fee of £1 would be payable but, as the original creditor obtained a CCJ against you some years ago, not only might such a request not really help you, it might have been lost or destroyed years ago.

It seems to me that what you require from Apex is a copy of the deed of assignment of the debt, as well as a statement of the account between the date of assignment and the present, so that you may reassure yourself that payments made have been correctly applied.

I'll leave it to someone more knowledgeable than myself to advise you on whether or not Apex, having bought the right to collect your money, have also taken on the responsibility for paying any compensation that may be due from mis-sold PPI.

[Ceejaylo]

Re: Need help with Legal Recovery Company

This is where I'm at a loss.. "a copy of the deed of assignment of the debt". I have asked Apex for this and they say the first letter they sent to me (a copy of which I recieved yesterday - see above), is the Deed of Assignment. But I don't know what a Deed of Assignment looks like? who it should be from... Black Horse or Apex or Both? or what information it should contain??

[Garlok]

Re: Need help with Legal Recovery Company

Unfortunately CJ they can base their comments on having sent you a "Notice of Assignment" fundamentally any old rubbish they can dream up. However if challenged they will be required to provide to the court the correct Deed of Assignment and I believe Angry Cat has some information on the accompanying document known as the "Deed of Sale".

I can only assume that the PPI is a responsibility transferred along with all the liabilities under the purchase of the debt. But I don't know for sure. In every other issue they are not allowed to cherry pick the bits they like and leave out the bits they don't like. I hope some of the PPI people come along to confirm or deny.

I tend to agree with most of what CC says but anything that costs little to wrong foot these people is always useful AND under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 fully backed (for what that is worth) by OFT debt collection guidelines now, they have to tell you straight away if they actually hold a legally enforceable agreement/document or not. It remains a criminal offence to lie under these regulations.

Usually the threat of these regs will put them right on the back foot. An old member, PriorityOne did a lot of work on this. It might be worth looking her up both on here and on (I hate to say this) Consumer Action Group. (very sorry Mods)

regards
Garlok

[Ceejaylo]

Re: Need help with Legal Recovery Company

Garlock, most of this is going over my head. PPI? no idea what that is.

Basicaly what I want is proof from someone? that the debt is mine and if so, who I should (legaly) be sending my payment to and how much is left on the loan to pay?

Please correct me if I have this wrong, but I think that means I need to ask for:-

1. a copy of the original Credit Agreement (proof it's my debt),
2. Copy of the Deed of Assignment from original OC to Apex (Proving they have the legal right to collect the debt) and finaly
3. a Statement of Account... all sent to Apex?

and wrapped up with a £1 postal Order and with reference to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Sections 77 and 77A of the Act....Have I got this right???????????

[CleverClogs]

Re: Need help with Legal Recovery Company

Garlock, most of this is going over my head. PPI? no idea what that is.

PPI is Payment Protection Insurance - the useless insurance policy sold by many/most/almost all lenders to get a bit more profit from their borrowers on the largely false promise that, should they be unable to pay due to illness, death or loss of employment, their payments would still be covered. Of course, should the borrower then try to claim, they might then understand the veracity of the Gospel according to St John chapter 18 verse 40: "Now Barabbas ran an insurance company."

You may be able to claim compensation from Apex because the obligations of United Dominions Trust should have been transferred to Black Horse and subsequently to Apex. With the addition of compound interest, it's even possible that they owe you more than the remaining value of the debt.

Basicaly what I want is proof from someone? that the debt is mine and if so, who I should (legaly) be sending my payment to and how much is left on the loan to pay?

Please correct me if I have this wrong, but I think that means I need to ask for:-

1. a copy of the original Credit Agreement (proof it's my debt),
2. Copy of the Deed of Assignment from original OC to Apex (Proving they have the legal right to collect the debt) and finaly
3. a Statement of Account... all sent to Apex?

and wrapped up with a £1 postal Order and with reference to the Cunsumer Credit Act 1974 Sections 77 and 77A of the Act....Have I got this right?

Yes, but be sure to state that the postal order is only to be used to pay the statutory fee - not that they'll return it or otherwise take any notice whatever.

[Garlok]

Re: Need help with Legal Recovery Company

Hi CJ,

CC is pretty good at this. The request for your agreement would be under section 78 CCA1974 or as amended by the 2006 Act if your agreement was after April 2007.

That is what the £1 is for it is a statutory sum.

Now that it appears to have been sold on it is my view that they have to prove they actually do own the debt and for no money they should porvide a copy of the Deed of Assignment and/or the Deed of Sale. The ambiguity starts because they may be able to get away with what is called a "Notice of Assignment" which is just any old letter to you they can dream up. However if they wish to go to court to vary this order you can demand copies of all documents they will rely on in court under the civil procedure rules s 31-14 thro'18 if you request them. You cannot put up a proper defence if you don't know what you are up against can you. You can ask the court to order this if they fail to comply and you can ask the court to strike out the action if they continue to fail.

There is no fee payable as CC says for a copy of the Deed of assignment or the statements of account. They just have to supply on request.

To whom did the original court order direct you to make the payments? I would talk to the court clerks because I would think only the court can make the variation. It is a judgement of the court after all and is directed by the judge. I would therefore tell apex to go take a hike unitl the court orders differently. Under no circumstance at this stage enter into discussions about a full and final settlement. Thes need handling carefully if you are not to hit trouble later. Make sure you keep all the correspondence though because it demonstrates their agreement in principle to accepting a full and final offer which by the way handled by solicitors who know what they are doing can as low as 10%

regards
Garlok

[Garlok]

Re: Need help with Legal Recovery Company

Sorry CJ, I get so wrapped in running credit matters like credit cards that I by force of habit say s78. As yours is a loan of fixed term etc, I think you will find Cleverclogs is correct in s77- 77a.

regards
Garlok

[Ceejaylo]

Re: Need help with Legal Recovery Company

Right folk, guess I know what I will be doing this weekend, writing my love letter to Apex. Thanks to you lovely people I feel much more confident about this. I have my crib sheet and will remember that less is definatly more...

CC I have no idea if I took out PPI with the loan, It's been so long. Yes, I will make sure Apex know why they have a whole £1 to spend.

Garlok. I have spoken to my local CC enforcement section who confirmed that Apex would need to go back to the Court to get a variation of the order. I presume the condition on the CCJ was for me to pay directly to United Dominion Trust otherwise I should have thought they would have been in touch with me sometime over the past 13 years...

All this is me presuming this debt is indeed mine to United Dominion Trust... I have no proof it is... as I said, even the Black Horse Account Reference number does not match any I have for my debt to UDT, but the UDT debt is the only one I have........ Oh well, I shall soon know I hope. I'm just very grateful to you all for shinning a light on the path I need to take.

I will get my letter out to them (recorded delivery) on Monday.. will keep you informed. CJ

[CleverClogs]

Re: Need help with Legal Recovery Company

CC I have no idea if I took out PPI with the loan, It's been so long.

I believe it is highly likely, as various rapscallions were promoting such scams back in the 1980s.

Yes, I will make sure Apex know why they have a whole £1 to spend.

But not all on sweets, surely?

Perhaps you should suggest they save 12/6d for their holidays?