mis-sold conservatory, company is claiming breach of contract

[James2007uk]

Re: mis-sold conservatory, company is claiming breech of contract

I am very grateful for you pointing out the Regency Gable, it does just add to the confusion. No they only discussed a victorian conservatory, they pointed to the picture which clearly showed a victorian conservatory - NOT a flat roof, they never wanted a flat roof and NEVER asked for it at any stage
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
I did submit the defence, but I think I am allowed to add amendments - so long as they are submitted before the court date.

[scoobydoo]

Re: mis-sold conservatory, company is claiming breech of contract

I am going to get someone who works for a conservatory company to comment on the drawings - may be too late for your defence but may help in hearing - can not get it in writing but they will look at the gable end bit for you.

[Paule]

Re: mis-sold conservatory, company is claiming breech of contract

How soon after you stopped Anglia, did the other contractor start?

[James2007uk]

Re: mis-sold conservatory, company is claiming breech of contract

there was about a 3 weeks in it, they wanted to get it finished before Christmas. I have e-mails and letters giving Anglian every opportunity to fit a victorian, even if there was an additional cost, but with the 8K they wanted it was pushing the bill to over 20K. Thats why it was decided to go to another contractor for roughly the same price 11k
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
thanks for looking into the Gable end scooby, I have googled it and Regency Gable sure looks like it is a pitched roof of a triangilar form....

[righty]

Re: mis-sold conservatory, company is claiming breech of contract

As you have both yours & their drawings you should use them as evidence because Anglians attempts at cost saving has led to this cock-up in the 1st place

As for changing suppliers was this done in writing, the original contract rescinded & the refunding of the monies already paid demanded from Anglian?

[James2007uk]

Re: mis-sold conservatory, company is claiming breech of contract

We did advise in writing (e-mail) that we would be changing supplies if they did not come up with a reasonable price for the victorian. We didnt demand the monies already paid, as we were happy for them to keep this for the services provided (demolition of old conservatory).

I will use the both drawings that we have, there are a number of others on the net also which they have produced that are also much clearer - I googled their Crusader Conservatory which is their brand name.

[scoobydoo]

Re: mis-sold conservatory, company is claiming breech of contract

Just as a comment the person who I spoke to said he thought the drawings were terrible - very unprofessional and confusing because of the Gable end section - he only works for a fairly small company and his drawings would be far superior and much clearer.( CAD type more views etc)

He also nearly fell off his chair when he saw the price for just a lean to.


The only thing I can suggest is similar to what you have done - get some examples of drawings from another local company and an example of where customers usually sign off on the actual drawing and use that as an example of why they were confused when they signed the contract .

[Amethyst]

Re: mis-sold conservatory, company is claiming breach of contract

Amendments to the defence will have to be on application which will cost you £35. I think it is worth doing as there are a few bits which may cause problems in court.

The drawings should definately be bought up.

One bit i don't think you have answered yet is when did the defendants actually see the 17th September drawing and was anything said to the company at that point? Was this the same time the dismantling of the old conservatory was undertaken?

[James2007uk]

Re: mis-sold conservatory, company is claiming breach of contract

Amendments to the defence will have to be on application which will cost you £35. I think it is worth doing as there are a few bits which may cause problems in court.

The drawings should definately be bought up.

One bit i don't think you have answered yet is when did the defendants actually see the 17th September drawing and was anything said to the company at that point? Was this the same time the dismantling of the old conservatory was undertaken?

As you can see I am not the best at putting together a defence… As I mentioned in “7.The defendant wishes to draw attention to the court that the claimant did not spend adequate time in explaining what was being sold, or provide sufficient detailed plans." Would I be able to bring up the drawings showing Regency Gable at the hearing, and provide the other clearer drawings of other conservatories as evidence?

------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
yes the drawings on the 15th Sept were seen before the they dismantled the old conservatory - they still beleived is it was a victorian as that is what had been said all along.

[Amethyst]

Re: mis-sold conservatory, company is claiming breach of contract

Just tried to make it clearer to the court what happened - in the defence entered you have denied everything and all that Anglian would have to do is show the original contact to show that was incorrect.

See what everyone else thinks so don't do anything yet - just some ideas for discussion really.

i considered pointing out to the court the parts of the contract where it is unclear (such as GARDEN ROOM) but think this may be best to wait until witness statements etc. Also i do have concerns that the drawing on the intial contract is quite clear, and you may have to argue 'vulnerability' and sales pressure/tactics etc to overcome that (have attached the bit I mean)

Also I'm not sure whether you can include something about cost cutting by the company with regards to the illustrations provided before signing order/taking deposit.

Plus we do need to clear up this September drawing as that is very clearly a flat roof.
------------------------------------------------------------

Defence


1.The Defendant denies that he is liable to the Claimant either as alleged in the Particulars of Claim or at all. Save where otherwise admitted, each and every allegation in the Particulars of Claim is denied.

2.By contract in writing dated 28th August 2009 the Defendant agreed to purchase from the Claimant a glazing installation. The installation was to be carried out at the address of xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and the contract price was £11350.

3. The order was made and the contract was signed in the Defendants home on 28th August 2008.

4. The Defendants invited the Claimants to their home in order to purchase a specific product - this being a Victorian style conservatory. All discussions with the Claimants representative were regarding a Victorian style conservatory. At no stage were they told that this had been changed or altered.

5. The Defendant wishes to draw attention to the court that the Claimants representative did not spend adequate time in explaining what was being sold, or provide sufficient detailed plans. The contract signed did not include any detailed drawing of the product ordered and the Defendants contend the contract provided was unclear to the claimants, or anyone who is not a conservatory specialist, concerning which product has been ordered.

6. On XXXx 2008 the Claimants commenced work by removing a previous installation from the property. The Claimants contractors/employees indicated to the Defendant that the glazing installation due to be installed was to be of a flat roof construction.

7. On XXXX more detailed drawings were supplied to the Defendant which clearly show the construction to be a flat roof 'lean-to' installation rather than the Victorian gable end style requested.

8. The order was cancelled by the Defendants on XXX (in writing??? copies available) and the Defendant contends that they were mislead by the Claimants representative and that the Claimants made an error in manafacturing an incorrect product.

9: In the Claimants particulars of claim they contend paragraph 3 that the Defendants failed to inform the Claimants of a suitable date for installation. The Defendants deny this allegation due to cancellation of the order on XXXXXX.

10: On cancellation of the order of the flat roof construction which the Defendant contends the Claimants ordered in error, and placing a replacement order for the correct product which has been discussed by the Claimants representative on 28 August 2008, the Claimants wrote by email to the Defendants (Appendix B) requesting payment of £7,727.00 (80% of the contact value) for the cancelled incorrect order before commencing work on the correct replacement order and subsequently stated that they would not reduce this amount in any amicable agreement.

11. The defendant believes that the failure of the claimant to negotiate a reduced amount, to be unreasonable and resulting in an alternative contractor being sought.

12. The defendant believes the claimant’s refusal to come to an amicable agreement in the discussions at the end of October has directly lead to the escalation of this matter.

13. The sum claimed by the Defendant is intended to cover their manafacturing costs only. The Defendant has not asked for a refund nor counterclaimed for a refund of the deposit paid, as they feel this covers the costs of removal of the original installation, which is the only work undertaken by the Defendant in respect of the contract.

14. I respectfully ask the court to make arrangements for this case to be transferred to the Cardiff County Court defined under CPR 30.2.

[Amethyst]

Re: mis-sold conservatory, company is claiming breach of contract

yes the drawings on the 15th Sept were seen before the they dismantled the old conservatory - they still beleived is it was a victorian as that is what had been said all along.

I think thats going to be the sticking point, as they could have cancelled at that point.

The conservatory they had actually built is Victorian ? Is it in the actual style they consider to be Victorian ? I think you could show the more detailed drawings of this although that could go against too as it is fairly obvious from the panel illustration I attached before that it is a lean to construction. Possibly need written evidence of an expert to say how shoddy and misleading the original drawings/illustrations were ?

[Paule]

Re: mis-sold conservatory, company is claiming breach of contract

I also think we need to see the correspondance emails/letters from when works were halted, as this is why they claim breach of contract because you stopped them working on site.

Have you given them adequete notice to put things right etc
What were there responses etc.

Need the papertrail to show that they wer given the opportunity to put thoings right and that you weren't unreasonable

[righty]

Re: mis-sold conservatory, company is claiming breach of contract

I suggest there also needs to be a definitive cut off, supported by corre of some sort, when Anglian were told their services were no longer required

[scoobydoo]

Re: mis-sold conservatory, company is claiming breach of contract

Sorry to ask this again if it is obvious - but were they asked just to sign the contract or was there a separate signature and date on the drawing.

There are Sections removed for obvious reasons and just wanted to see if there was proof they loked at the drawing as that is the only indication of what they were getting - the name in the contract is ambigous, as is the price as the cost is obviously individually negotiated.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Also

Not sure if it would help but my friend said with his company there would also be detailed notes about the initial meeting - not just the contract and the survey form /contract. For example - what prices /conservatories were discussed - did they start off at £15000 and come down to £11000 - did they discuss all the heating options /payment options etc.

[James2007uk]

Re: mis-sold conservatory, company is claiming breach of contract

Yes there was a seperate date and sign on the drawings

Not sure about the notes that Anglian made, but they were paying cash so the payment options were not discussed.

The e-mails that were sent back and forth show that we gave adequate notice, and we gave them every oportunity to come up with a sensible price, however, they would not move on wanting the £7,727.00 for the old conservatory, although without giving us any notice they have moved now and the figure has gone down to just over £3000.00 - i'll try and get the e-mails printed off and scan them to put on here.

Thanks for putting together the new defence, I will put in forward.