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Hi there,
So my uncle, who I have been living with during lockdown, received an FPN for allegedly leaving rubbish bags around the corner from his designated spot. His address was found in that trash and hence the FPN. This is in Wandsworth and the fine has come from NSL Ltd, based on Oldham who are clearly the contractors to deal with it. Here are the facts and I have corresponded twice with NSL Ltd to appeal this.
- The original FPN came with notice of an offence and no photographic evidence. The incident address they have given is also not round the corner but far at the end of the road they are saying. About 300m away.
- The incident took place on Monday 26th October at around 12pm, or at least that is when their officer saw it.
I responded to this letter kindly saying:
- This is not something my uncle has committed.
- Mid afternoon on the day of the alleged incident, my uncle was taken to hospital by paramedics. He now sits on a ventilator (even as I type this) with severe covid on the lungs. He had been unwell for two days prior to this alleged incident and was barely able to walk much let alone take rubbish out. I said they can check with the ICU at chelsea and westminster.
- There is no photographic evidence
- If you respond, please respond to me his nephew.
Their response:
- Once again addressed to my uncle, who is in hospital and shows complete lack of compassion.
- They have sent photos of rubbish bags far away from the original address they said but close to mine and my uncles address. Possibly a typo from their end but surely not good evidence on their part if the address is wrong
- They have a photo of my uncles address. I believe this could have been mail that ended up in someone else's house, junk mail perhaps, that has been thrown out by someone in their designated spot but looks like ours.
I respond:
- Angry they have ignored my request to address it to me and not even mentioned the fact he was ill.
- Explained the photo shows it could have been junk mail, is someone expected to pay a fine when there is clearly reasonable doubt
- Have said their photo evidence doesn't correspond with the address they have put down
- We know where the designated spot for us is and have not committed this
They respond
- Saying the fine stands and will head to magistrates court if we don't pay it
- No mention of my uncles illness or any of my reasons
- Once again addressed to him which felt wrong, he isn't around.
- Threat of £2500 at magistrates court
My questions:
- As it is addressed to my uncle but he is in hospital and in ICU, should that not be taken into account as evidence to suggest he could not have done this?
- We are doing them a courtesy by opening his mail and responding, why are they letting me respond yet still addressing it to him? Do they have to prove that it was he that committed the offence?
- The evidence is simply a photo of some rubbish bags and then a zoomed in snap of his name and address. That's it. Does that mean other residents would not be liable for anything and hence if it can be proved he was unwell will that suffice?
- The inconsistency in the address to the incident will that be enough to not get to court? It could be a typo that a judge might say, well it's clearly a typo but surely that isn't good enough when issuing a fine?
- Would me or my uncle mentioning that junk mail could be the reason for this, be considered as a plausible reason even when absolutely not us? Could have been junk mail, a stray envelope etc.
- Would they need CCTV?
- How often do these even get to court?
Just confused as to why they won't even consider all my points, is it an empty threat or could this get to court in the current climate?
Cheers
Mihir
So my uncle, who I have been living with during lockdown, received an FPN for allegedly leaving rubbish bags around the corner from his designated spot. His address was found in that trash and hence the FPN. This is in Wandsworth and the fine has come from NSL Ltd, based on Oldham who are clearly the contractors to deal with it. Here are the facts and I have corresponded twice with NSL Ltd to appeal this.
- The original FPN came with notice of an offence and no photographic evidence. The incident address they have given is also not round the corner but far at the end of the road they are saying. About 300m away.
- The incident took place on Monday 26th October at around 12pm, or at least that is when their officer saw it.
I responded to this letter kindly saying:
- This is not something my uncle has committed.
- Mid afternoon on the day of the alleged incident, my uncle was taken to hospital by paramedics. He now sits on a ventilator (even as I type this) with severe covid on the lungs. He had been unwell for two days prior to this alleged incident and was barely able to walk much let alone take rubbish out. I said they can check with the ICU at chelsea and westminster.
- There is no photographic evidence
- If you respond, please respond to me his nephew.
Their response:
- Once again addressed to my uncle, who is in hospital and shows complete lack of compassion.
- They have sent photos of rubbish bags far away from the original address they said but close to mine and my uncles address. Possibly a typo from their end but surely not good evidence on their part if the address is wrong
- They have a photo of my uncles address. I believe this could have been mail that ended up in someone else's house, junk mail perhaps, that has been thrown out by someone in their designated spot but looks like ours.
I respond:
- Angry they have ignored my request to address it to me and not even mentioned the fact he was ill.
- Explained the photo shows it could have been junk mail, is someone expected to pay a fine when there is clearly reasonable doubt
- Have said their photo evidence doesn't correspond with the address they have put down
- We know where the designated spot for us is and have not committed this
They respond
- Saying the fine stands and will head to magistrates court if we don't pay it
- No mention of my uncles illness or any of my reasons
- Once again addressed to him which felt wrong, he isn't around.
- Threat of £2500 at magistrates court
My questions:
- As it is addressed to my uncle but he is in hospital and in ICU, should that not be taken into account as evidence to suggest he could not have done this?
- We are doing them a courtesy by opening his mail and responding, why are they letting me respond yet still addressing it to him? Do they have to prove that it was he that committed the offence?
- The evidence is simply a photo of some rubbish bags and then a zoomed in snap of his name and address. That's it. Does that mean other residents would not be liable for anything and hence if it can be proved he was unwell will that suffice?
- The inconsistency in the address to the incident will that be enough to not get to court? It could be a typo that a judge might say, well it's clearly a typo but surely that isn't good enough when issuing a fine?
- Would me or my uncle mentioning that junk mail could be the reason for this, be considered as a plausible reason even when absolutely not us? Could have been junk mail, a stray envelope etc.
- Would they need CCTV?
- How often do these even get to court?
Just confused as to why they won't even consider all my points, is it an empty threat or could this get to court in the current climate?
Cheers
Mihir
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