Notice to keeper timescale

[Guest]

I received a PCN on 21.10.20 regarding an incident dated 3.8.20, that is, 78 days after the incident. Citizens Advice state that Notice to Keeper must be received within 14 days.
Should I appeal on these grounds?

[ostell]

Is it a hire car?

[limeyben]

Hi, thanks for the response. No, I am the car keeper. My appeal to Civil Enforcement was unsuccessful and I've been given a verification code. The driver is not known

[ostell]

So why start another thread? It just confuses issues

You've said you appealed.

So now can we have the FULL story not just dribs and drabs.

Your appeal and redacted copies of the NTK would help. CEL have probably missed some of the required statements to hold the keeper liable and should be added to your POPLA appeal

[ostell]

With the response in your other thread that you are the reg keeper then they have either 14 days or 56 days to get the NTK to you.

That's why I asked for the full story.

If it was a hire care the time can extend to over 100 days.

[limeyben]

So now I find my second thread! Profound apologies Ostell, I will now ignore the first and concentrate on this one. Thank you for your comments. So... no dribs and drabs.. The full story:
On 21st October the postman delivered a PCN. It states there is a Parking charge of £100 due that would be reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days of issue date, (21.10.20). The PCN included my car registration number, make and colour, plus two photos of the car entrance at 17.20 and exit at 18.01 on 3.8.20.
Overleaf are methods of payment and how to appeal. I email my appeal to Civil Enforcement, I did not state that I was the driver. I stated that the serving of the notice was outside the timescale.
I only knew that because I started asking for advice. But no-one could confirm to me that the timescale of 14 days is an actual law. I presume the PCN sent to me is "A Notice to Keeper "
On 3rd November I receive a Response to Representation stating my appeal has been unsuccessful. "We have no record of a payment made for the above vehicle registration on the day in question ".
It was by searching for advice I came across this site. I also came across the following :
The parking company has not met the keeper liability requirements and therefore keeper liability does not apply. The parking company can therefore persue the driver (s) at the time. As the parking company have neither named the driver (s), nor provided any evidence as to who the driver (s) were, I submit I am not liable to any charge.
The above was part of some other chaps appeal and he won. I feel that the 78 days it took to notify me of a parking charge does not meet the keeper liability requirements .
I am unaware of any redacted copies. Not having any experience in this situation I just wanted to sound out my thoughts in the hope of receiving another person's opinion before I actually appeal to popla.
I do apologise once again for creating two threads, I will attempt to terminate the other one!
Kind regards Ben

[ostell]

OK so full facts so possible to make comment. With no windscreen ticket then yes they have to deliver the notice within 14 days.

My suggested appeal at that point would have been:

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc


Post up a redacted copy of the PCN you received so others can look at it.

[limeyben]

Thank you so much for your reply .
Your suggested appeal is excellent, however I have already had my appeal refused by Civil Enforcement, I cannot resend an appeal, and they have given me a POPLA Verification code in order to appeal to POPLA.
You have confirmed the reason for my appeal is valid. It's the wording of my appeal to POPLA that I would very much appreciate help with. I haven't started that yet so have no idea of their paperwork.
I will post this now, then try to find out how to post up a copy of the PCN sent to me. Am I correct in thinking that the PCN is also the Notice to Keeper?
Thanks for your patience!

[ostell]

Yes, the PCN is a Notice to Keeper.

Take a photo or scan the PCN, redact personal info and post the image on here. If you can't get the image on here then use a hosting site such as imgur and post a link to the picture on here.

If you look on here and the pepipoo forums you will find POPLA appeals.

For additional fails then compare what is on the NTK with what is required by POFA. This is a link to POFA Paragraph 9 is applicable.

[limeyben]

I've tried attaching a photo but the files too big.I will have to enlist the help of a computer literate person, my knowledge is limited. I will find a way. I take this opportunity to thank you for patience and comments. All good luck to you sir.

[ostell]

Did you try on imgur as suggested?

[limeyben]

Well I've tried imgur and various other means to provide a photo of my PCN but I'm afraid I haven't the knowledge. May I ask why it's important? Thanks for advising about pepipoo, an excellent site.
I've read about cases similar to mine but all seem to have other circumstances to overcome. The only reason for my intention to appeal to popla is the time taken to inform me of the incident, 78 days. That’s all I have, and surely all that's needed. Or should it be flowered up with other considerations?
So, up to now my appeal , (pinching your eloquence), to popla will be:
The PPC have failed to comply...etc, ending with There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.
Surely, if they have not complied, they have no case? Or am I being naive?

[limeyben]

img002.jpg

[limeyben]

success!!

[ostell]

Now that you've cracked that one how about the reverse of the notice ? The intention is to get as many failures as possible for POPLA