Help with my debt and CCJs

[jackindebt]

Good morning and hello, I have finally pulled my head out of the sand and hope someone can help with some advice.

I have a debt problem, all of my own making and currently have approx £59k in unsecured debt. I am calling StepChange on Monday and totally recognise that my problem is out of control and I fully intend to sort my problem.

I lived my life since 2011 using credit cards and getting loans to pay them off but using the cards again hence the build up of debt, I have nothing really to show for the money I have spent and put a lot of it down to being depressed and trying to subsidise my life on cards which I have used and abused, every time i asked for a limit increase it appeared and once at the limit, applied for another card and hey presto, borrowing from one to pay the other etc until I had to change jobs and got paid less. Couldn’t manage all the payments and just had to stop paying in order to pay my bills and live.

Eventually after ignoring countless letters here I am with four ccjs.

The main reason I have found myself in this forum is that a large proportion of my debt is owed to one loan/credit card co who have passed a personal loan debt and 3 of my seven credit card accounts to shoosmiths, who chased me for a couple of months before sending another letter which stated at the bottom they they would commence legal action by obtaining ccjs if i didn’t respond. This wasn’t worded as a letter before action, just a letter saying i needed to come up with a proposal to pay. This last letter was dated 19th April and did not state that I had 30 days to respond. Just that they would take action if I didn’t respond.

I didn't and they commenced a claim for a 4 CCJs against me on 9th May, I received the claim forms from the court shortly after and didn’t read them properly and thought I had 30 days to respond thinking they were letters before claim, I then realised they were actual claims and replied to them all but a few days late of the 14 days allowed.

I contacted shoosmiths who informed my that because I hadn’t replied in time the judgements were to be obtained and I needed to pay them £27k approx if they would get a charging order against my house (live in England and own the house with my wife, she has no debts and the debts above are all in my sole name).

They went ahead and applied to the court for a charging order, they have told me on the phone that the charging order covers all four debt amounting to £27k and that as they had a forthwith judgment as I hadn’t replied in time that they would next go for an order for sale.

I pretty much lost control at this point and went to jump in front of a train, my wife found my and stopped me and I broke down.

Amidst all this going on we were actually in the process of selling the house. So then getting the order would take any or all of the money left from the sale once the mortgage was paid off so I was devastated this could happen as my wife paid the deposit and pays the mortgage so the thought of loosing everything was also a contributing factor to me nearly slipping over the edge.

So anyway, as the sale was with solicitors, the buyers searches brought up the impending charging order (restriction) so it all came out what was going on, my solicitor asked shoosmiths for a redemption statement to see what we could do and they confirmed in a letter to my solicitor that they had a ‘final’ (which they didn’t) Charging order for the four accounts totalling £27k and that’s what they wanted from the sale.

Having delved a bit bit further into it, they have only applied for a charging order for the ccj for the larger debt of £10k and have not asked for an order for the other 3 CCJS
But they have stated in a letter to my solicitor that they actually have charging orders for all four debts. Are they allows to blatantly lie to another solicitor to try to obtain all of the debts?

I know that I have been stupid by not facing up to this sooner and I now have to repair my marriage as well as my money but any help from a legal perspective would be good as my conversing solicitor is sick of men asking for loads of extra help!

I am not trying to run away from the debts I just want to pay them back at a reasonable amount and am considering an IVA now the house if sold.

im sure I have missed something here, please ask

[Amethyst]

I'm so glad to see you posting. Things can feel incredibly dark for a while but you will get through and it will be better once you have a clear plan for dealing with this and can start looking forward again.

We aren't debt advisors so you are definitely doing the right thing talking with stepchange next week to see what options you might have in the way of formal solutions. It might be a good idea to also talk to Citizens Advice face to face - they can go through the overall situation with you, and you can chat with them about any suggestions Stepchange make before making a decision. Is your wife going to be present when you're having the Stepchange call? If not, she should as you can then consider the options together and ensure you both understand exactly what's involved in an IVA etc.

So these ccjs and charging orders ... Arrow Global / Shoosmiths …

Were there 4 separate claims or 4 debts combined on the one claim ?
All issued 9th May ? Did you file acknowledgments before 27th May ? Online or on paper ?
Were they all the same original creditor ?
Do you have copies of any of the paperwork ?
Judgment (in Default ) orders ?
Charging Order application / hearing notice from the court ? ( check with court the status of the four claims )
Have you got the details of the charge from the land registry ?

Selling the house wise, what's the plan? Are you aiming to rent or buy another property ?

What's the position with the other £30k? of debts ?

Have you been through your credit files as yet ? It will be painful but it might be an idea to access all three ( Experian, Equifax and Callcredit(transunion) ) Free access is available to each that you can keep an eye on monthly - https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...-report-access - I find it helps to do that and can give myself goals to focus on and watch things improve slowly.

Once you have your income and expenditure sorted out - any that are at CCJ's you could look at applying to the court to vary to instalment orders,

You can do the same with any of the Arrow CCJ's that aren't at a final charge,

and then any that aren't at a CCJ you can investigate and gather documents to see whether you need to make arrangements to pay instalments on those ( of course reliant on any solutions you discuss with debt advisors ).

[jackindebt]

Hi!!!! Thanks for the reply, I have answered below!

Were there 4 separate claims or 4 debts combined on the one claim ? 4 Seperate
All issued 9th May ? Claim issued to court 9th May, judgement obtained 30th May.
Did you file acknowledgments before 27th May ? Online or on paper ? I thought I had 30 days from 9th so didn’t reply till 31st May.
Were they all the same original creditor ? All same creditor and all covered by CCA.
Do you have copies of any of the paperwork ? Yes I have copies
Judgment (in Default ) orders ? Somewhere!
Charging Order application / hearing notice from the court ? Charging order being sought for one account not all A’s their letter to my conveyancer said, this was requested 25th June, they only officily informed me in a letter on 11th July ( check with court the status of the four claims ) other 3 are still at judgment stays
Have you got the details of the charge from the land registry ? Yes only one account for £10k

Selling the house wise, what's the plan? Are you aiming to rent or buy another property ? Living in parents annex!

Thanks for any help, I’ll post more later!!

[Amethyst]

Annexing with the parents sounds like a good move

Were there 4 separate claims or 4 debts combined on the one claim ?

4 Separate

Were they all the same original creditor ?

All same creditor and all covered by CCA.

Can you say who the original creditor was? HSBC / MBNA etc for example?
One was over £10k? the rest under £10k of varying amounts ?

All issued 9th May ?

Claim issued to court 9th May, judgement obtained 30th May.

Did you file acknowledgments before 27th May ? Online or on paper ?

I thought I had 30 days from 9th so didn’t reply till 31st May.

Bummer, not really any leeway there unfortunately. Even with 5 days allowed for service you were a couple days late.

Do you have copies of any of the paperwork ?

Yes I have copies

Judgment (in Default ) orders ?

Somewhere!

Charging Order application / hearing notice from the court ?

Charging order being sought for one account not all A’s their letter to my conveyancer said, this was requested 25th June, they only officily informed me in a letter on 11th July

( check with court the status of the four claims )

other 3 are still at judgment stays

Have you got the details of the charge from the land registry ? Yes only one account for £10k

Can you type out the wording for it pls. Should be something like this

Form K (Charging order affecting beneficial interest—certificate required) No disposition of the [registered estate or registered charge dated [date]] is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to [name of person with the benefit of the charging order] at [address for service], being the person with the benefit of [an interim] [a final] charging order on the beneficial interest of (name of judgment debtor) made by the (name of court) on (date) (Court reference ).

And for the letter from Arrow to the solicitor. They could be applying to join the judgment debts under one and obtain a restriction. Have you had anything from the court or just the interim notice from the Land Registry ? You can defend their application to make it a final order. What does the 11th July letter say ?

You could apply to court to vary the forthwith orders ( were they all forthwith ? ) into instalments - this is form N245 https://www.gov.uk/government/public...on-of-an-order and does cost £50. Although things are tough debt wise it doesn't sound like you'd be eligible for fee remission but you could have a look to check as I don't know your circumstances - https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-tribunal-fees
Getting your IE done with the help of stepchange will help complete the forms IF that's appropriate.

The other £30k of debt hasn't gone to court ?
Do you know when each account was opened and when approximately you stopped paying / defaulted on them ?

[jackindebt]

Hi amethyst, I’m out and about so I’ll answer all your questions fully later, the charging order states

Dated 3rd July 2019
B136(CO) form
Restriction: No disposition of the registered estate, other than a disposition by the proprietor of any registered charge registered before the entry of this restriction, is to be registered or their conveyancer that written notice of disposition was given to creation consumer finance limited c/o shoosmiths, being the person with benefit of an interim Charging Order on the beneficial interest of ....... made by the county court money claims centre on 25th June 2019.


thanks. The four debts are with creation finance

[jackindebt]

The letter I received from them which included the application to the court for the charging order was only for 1 account (personal loan) at just under £10k, there are three others (credit cards) at around £6k each.
Am I correct in asking them why they have lied to my conveyancer in a letter stating that they have final charging orders for the full £27k which they actually don’t?

[jackindebt]

I’m extremely confused, I have returned home tonight to 3 letters from the CCMCC which made me gasp, I assumed that they were the notices of final charging orders, but the all read the same dated 19th August, they are General Forms of Judgement or Order stating (one for each of the CO’s;


Before Deputy District Judge ** sitting at CCMCC Salford
Upon consideration of application for final co under title zzz
IT IS ORDERED THAT
The application for final CO is dismissed, the interim CO is discharged forthwith l. The judgement creditor do forthwith vacate any Land Registry charges or entries relating to the granting of the interim CO

Because this order has been made without a hearing the parties have he right to apply to have the order set aside, varied or stayed, any application must be made within 7 days with the app fee.
And
A) The person making the application is the defendant; and
b) the defendant is an individual
Then upon the filing of the application the claim with be transferred to the defendants home court. In all other cases requiring a hearing the claim will be transferred to the preferred court

Dated 12th August 2019


can anyone enlighten me as to what I do next please!

[Amethyst]

Wow... well the judge didn't like their application much and has ordered the interim charge be removed and hasn't granted the final charging orders. They were fibbing to the conveyancer as they did not have a final charge on any of the accounts. Are there are four letters three letters? I suppose there is the possibility that they could have had everything merged into one account so they have one charging order but then the order from the court doesn't really make sense… Can you check the claim numbers and see which ones have been refused and possibly give the court a ring about the one we don't have a letter for. Just to be absolutely certain what is happening.

They could apply to the judge to look at it again. Had you entered anything to court following receipt of their application ? What did Stepchange say when you spoke to them?

They do still have the default judgements on the four accounts there so you should decide what you're going to do with those - Apply to set them aside or apply to pay by instalment orders.Probably best to apply to pay by instalment orders, as you did receive the claims and replied a few days late so the time has probably passed to try and set aside to defend the cases. Hopefully stepchange havevbeen through your IE sheet with you and Talked you through the N245 form?