EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

What again. OK well firstly it is a badly written request which limits the possible responses and makes it easy to misinterpret.
Funds are not usually physically sent but balances of the accounts are adjusted, this may be a response quoting the old situation who knows.

You are priceless. Greenwich:

No money is passed to the Enforcement Agent.

There is no policy, contract or service level agreement currently in place that compels us to pass on direct payments.

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

The exerciser Pote

Yes, the exerciser... the person carrying out the exercise.

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

And the EA is that exerciser, no-one else.

The exerciser Pote

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

Oh boo-hoo. Let's see your explanation of the answers given.

What again. OK well firstly it is a badly written request which limits the possible responses and makes it easy to misinterpret.
Funds are not usually physically sent but balances of the accounts are adjusted, this may be a response quoting the old situation who knows.

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

Again the legislation says that proceeds is produced by the exerciser of an enforcement power.

And the EA is that exerciser, no-one else.

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

This is all a product of your imagination pote, nowhere within any of the legislation does it say that proceeds can only be collected by the EA, in fact it say that the authority cannot refuse payment if memory serves me, so this rather goes against your argument.

Again the legislation says that proceeds is produced by the exerciser of an enforcement power.

Payments to the creditor are not proceeds.

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

An EA can only collect his fee from proceeds, that is indisputable. The procedure for gaining proceeds is to take control of the debtors goods and sell them or taking money under an enforcement power.

The only person authorised to use an enforcement power procedure is an EA; no-one else has that power. Money taken by any other individual has not been taken under an enforcement power, as that individual does not have the authorisation to use that procedure.

This is all a product of your imagination pote, nowhere within any of the legislation does it say that proceeds can only be collected by the EA, in fact it say that the authority cannot refuse payment if memory serves me, so this rather goes against your argument.

Again the legislation says that proceeds is produced by the exerciser of an enforcement power.

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

Seen this before haven't we ?

Oh boo-hoo. Let's see your explanation of the answers given.

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

Seen this before haven't we ?

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

Veery good again, if ounly were able to put all these pices together logically yuo would be there.

Procedures in this case are those within the act, ie those in the taking control of goods regulations, the proceeds are generates when these "procedures" are performed.
This money is the pro eeds it matters not who they are paid to , they are generated by the procedure, do you get it yet ?

An EA can only collect his fee from proceeds, that is indisputable. The procedure for gaining proceeds is to take control of the debtors goods and sell them or taking money under an enforcement power.

The only person authorised to use an enforcement power procedure is an EA; no-one else has that power. Money taken by any other individual has not been taken under an enforcement power, as that individual does not have the authorisation to use that procedure.

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

You will never get to understand this Pote if you keep allowing yourself to be distracted by irrelevancies

I'll take that as a yes...


Freedom of Information request RFI/08198
Thank you for your Freedom of Information request, shown below.
Our response is as follows:-

1) What happens at your Local Authority should a Council Tax account that has been passed to an Enforcement Agent receive a payment, either a full or part payment, direct from the debtor?

If a payment is received by this Authority, the Enforcement Agent is advised of this and the Council Tax account balance is reduced accordingly.

2) If you pass no money on to the Enforcement Agent, do you inform the agent of any payments made? Do you advise that they need to make their own arrangements to collect their fees?

No money is passed to the Enforcement Agent. They are advised of the direct payment, in order that the Council Tax account balance can be reduced accordingly. We do not advise them about their fees.

3) If you pass all or any money onto the Enforcement Agent, please can you show the exact legislation that compels you to do so, directing me to the specific part?

No money is passed to the Enforcement Agent.

4) If there is no such legislation, can you direct me to any policy, contract or service level agreement you have in place that compels you to pass on direct payments?

There is no policy, contract or service level agreement currently in place that compels us to pass on direct payments.

5) If a policy, contract or service level agreement is in place, what legislation or regulation makes that document legally binding on a defaulter when they have not agreed to its terms?

There is a Service Level Agreement in place between the Royal Borough of Greenwich and the Enforcement Agents. This outlines agreed levels of service between the two parties, but does not contain any requirements on the defaulter.

6) Should a defaulter make a direct payment to clear the arrears stated on the account and receive a receipt, does your Local Authority consider this proof that the original account has been paid?

If a defaulter makes a direct payment which clears the arrears, the Enforcement Agent will be informed of the payment and that the Council Tax account has been cleared.

7) From where does (or did) your Council Tax collection staff take their training or advice on the practice of taking direct payments in the circumstances outlined in this correspondence?

The process for dealing with direct payment is outlined in a procedure note, for the staff to follow.

If you have any queries about this correspondence, please contact me, quoting the reference number above.
If you are not satisfied with our response to your request, you can ask for an Internal Review. Internal review requests should be submitted within two months of the date of receipt of the response to your original request. If you wish to do this, please contact us, setting out why you are dissatisfied.
If you are not satisfied with the outcome of the Internal Review, you may apply directly to the Information Commissioner (ICO) for a decision. Generally, the ICO cannot make a decision unless you have exhausted the Internal Review procedure provided by the Council.

Yours sincerely,



Eileen Edwards
Head of Policy, Partnerships and Performance
Chief Executive’s Department
Royal Borough of Greenwich
LGC Council of the Year 2013
'020 8921 5132
* The Woolwich Centre, 35 Wellington Street, London SE18 6HQ
8www.royalgreenwich.gov.uk

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

ooh, I've just had another reply arrive... shall I post it or share it amongst the regulars?

You will never get to understand this Pote if you keep allowing yourself to be distracted by irrelevancies

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

A procedure is an official or established way of doing something.

Veery good again, if ounly were able to put all these pices together logically yuo would be there.

Procedures in this case are those within the act, ie those in the taking control of goods regulations, the proceeds are generates when these "procedures" are performed.
This money is the pro eeds it matters not who they are paid to , they are generated by the procedure, do you get it yet ?

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

ooh, I've just had another reply arrive... shall I post it or share it amongst the regulars?

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

Well, if only an EA has the power to enforce, that means anyone else taking a payment cannot have done so using that same power. A council cashier certainly does not have the power to enforce, so anything paid to a cashier has not been done so under an enforcement power. As proceeds can only be money or goods taken under an enforcement power, money paid to a cashier cannot be deemed proceeds.

Seems simple enough.

Oh and you were doing so well Pote.

See if I can explain in terms you may understand. Proceeds are the sums produced whilst an enforcement power is being exercised, the enforcement powers are itemized within the TCE and the regs.

I have the power to go to the shop to buy a can of beans, once i have the can of beans , i can have it for my tea, i can drop it in the food bank i can put it in my cupboard, the point is that it remains a can of beans.

Proceeds are the name for the sums produced by the power to enforce, the proceeds remain proceeds no matter who they are paid to or what is done with them, it is just the name for the result of the action of the enforcement power. See the answer form Southampton legal earlier this thread.