Fingerprinting children in schools

[Amethyst]

I wondered, as it is something that I have recently been asked to make a decision on with my eldest, if any one else's childrens school have started using biometrics (fingerprinting) for things like paying for school dinners, taking books out of the library and registration for classes.

Were you asked to opt in or to opt out before the scheme started ?

I hadn't heard much about it until I looked into it after visiting the local secondary school, but it seems it, although having been banned in China and other countries, is growing rapidly here and now covers an estimated 20 schools in each LEA.

The ICO have investigated and reported on it, the government says its nothing to do with them its down to the schools local authoritys and the LEA's say its down to the governers of each school. Theres no central records held or definitive list of schools. Its used in nursery, primary, secondary and sixth form. There is no legal requirement to ask parents for permission as children as young as 3 are considered responsible for their own identitys.

I won't ramble on, I just wondered what other peoples thoughts on fingerprinting kids were.

[stevokenevo]

Re: Fingerprinting children in schools

i DO have an opinion on this subject, i just cant put my finger on it :rockon:

[Luminol]

Re: Fingerprinting children in schools

I dont agree at all Ame, uptil now I hadnt heard about it at all, sometimes I think theres to much information gathering these days.

I think that Local Councils seem to think they are 'the ultimate power'. Take the whole Watford council thing.

Watford council punts parents from playground • The Register

Lumi x

[Paule]

Re: Fingerprinting children in schools

Interesting, I havent heard of this, but I will go and ask some questions about it.
I will see if I can get hold of the offfcial guidance on it

[Amethyst]

Re: Fingerprinting children in schools

ICO - http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documen...view_v1.11.pdf

BECTA - http://schools.becta.org.uk/upload-d...in_schools.doc

[Luminol]

Re: Fingerprinting children in schools

I have to say, this bit doesnt suprise me,

It has even been suggested that fingerprinting in schools is part of a concerted attempt to “soften up” the younger generation for increased state privacy intrusion, including initiatives such as ID cards and DNA testing.

....also in light of anyone in powers inability to keep personal information secure, I dont see any need to gather more info especially on our children.

Lumi x

[Amethyst]

Re: Fingerprinting children in schools

got this back from my LEA

Unfortunately we do not have an LA policy on biometrics in schools. We do not collect or hold any central record of whether schools use biometric data and therefore we are unable to answer this request. However, schools individually may choose to use biometrics and therefore you could contact the schools directly in order to receive this information.

have looked at my schools ICO register entry and theres nothing I could specifically link to biometric Data storage and use, so going to check with the ICO if that should have a seperate provision.

[Amethyst]

Re: Fingerprinting children in schools

hmmmm, Eldest starts at this new school in September and have just had a leaflet from them which kind of peeves me. I was planning on her opting out of the biometric payment system and using a swipe card instead - however they have now stopped use of the swipe cards, and they are not able to use cash at all, so its fingerprints or nothing basically.

I'm wondering how legal this is ?

The only option it seems in order for her fingerprints not to be stored by the county council/school is for her to have packed lunch every day.

I feel a bit like I'm being overprotective and paranoid but I just don't trust this data not to be used for other purposes.

The new government plans to ban the controversial practice in schools of taking children's fingerprints without their permission.
The decision is likely to mean a change in the law. According to the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO), as it stands the Data Protection Act allows schools to take pupil fingerprints without permission, prompting outrage from parents' groups.


In response, in 2007 the ICO issued non-binding guidance to schools suggesting that they ought to seek permission.

In a brief document explaining the broad terms of their coalition yesterday, the Conservative and Liberal Democrats committed to "outlawing the finger-printing of children at school without parental permission".
The Register recently heard from Chris Halliday, a father in the Scottish borders who has battled authorities for several years after his daughter's fingerprints were taken without the family's permission.
Fighting for answers from the ICO, he was eventually told that as well as having no choice as a parent, his daughter's consent was also not needed by the secondary school. Her "consent could not be freely given", the ICO wrote, because a fingerprint was needed to use the school dinners system.
Halliday's anger at the regulatory response chimes with that of campaign groups such as Leave Them Kids Alone, which argues that being forced to give biometric data to access normal services is a breach of children's human rights.
There have already been moves to rein in school fingerprinting at local level. In Liverpool, the city council passed a motion banning promotion of biometrics in schools by the local authority.
The ICO said said today that it was awaiting further details of the proposed national restrictions, which are due in the next two weeks. Responsibility for drawing up the new policy will fall to the Department of Justice, under Ken Clarke. ®

Taking children's biometrics at school may be illegal on several grounds. Article 8 of the Human Rights Act (1998) states that everyone has the right for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right. Fingerprinting children just for a few library books or the morning register seems an unjustified, disproportionate and unnecessary invasion of this fundamental right.

It is highly significantly that central Government have distanced themselves from the issue of legality.

[Amy]

Re: Fingerprinting children in schools

You can't be the only mother who feels like this, I know I would. Have you talked to any other mothers?

[TUTTSI]

Re: Fingerprinting children in schools

That does not sound right Ame, they must need parental consent surely before they can finger print kids.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...M7do7RIs_mQuJg just found this and also this http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...6lvqpyh40E6LBA

[Amethyst]

Re: Fingerprinting children in schools

The ones I have spoken to aren't bothered - which makes me feel even more paranoid lol - but tbh I don't think its understood very well as there is no explanation of it in the leaflets from school at all, there are many concerns nationally though and it does appear that action is being taken to make it illegal to take fingerprints without permission by the current government. I'm going to call the school tmw and sound them out and find out how to stop them taking her fingerprints in the first place as there is no opt out on the new starter forms. I'm losing free school meals so its likely she'll be on packed lunch anyway but it would be nice for her to have the option for school dinners/canteen/tuck shop etc as I'm a disorganised so and so.

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Fingerprinting children in schools

Have you emailed the department of Education
Home - Department for Education

Conservatives were opposed to this in 2007 but wonder if they share the same viewpoint today.



BBC NEWS | Education | Schools get rules on biometrics

[Amethyst]

Re: Fingerprinting children in schools

10. Civil liberties
The parties agree to implement a full programme of measures to reverse the substantial erosion of civil liberties under the Labour Government and roll back state intrusion.
This will include:

• A Freedom or Great Repeal Bill.
• The scrapping of ID card scheme, the National Identity register, the next generation of biometric passports and the Contact Point Database.
• Outlawing the finger-printing of children at school without parental permission.
• The extension of the scope of the Freedom of Information Act to provide greater transparency.
• Adopting the protections of the Scottish model for the DNA database.
• The protection of historic freedoms through the defence of trial by jury.
• The restoration of rights to non-violent protest.
• The review of libel laws to protect freedom of speech.
• Safeguards against the misuse of anti-terrorism legislation.
• Further regulation of CCTV.
• Ending of storage of internet and email records without good reason.
• A new mechanism to prevent the proliferation of unnecessary new criminal offences.

May 2010 ConLib agreement

[Amethyst]

Re: Fingerprinting children in schools

The 'information'

[Jester]

Re: Fingerprinting children in schools

Personally, I'd be asking the school if they are prepared to give a guarantee that this 'information' on their child is to remain private and remind them that in the event of such information getting out into the Public Domain that they would be held personally responsible.

I would also be asking them how they intend to protect this information in relation to the Data Protection Act, what measures they are taking to safeguard this information and (as it is effectively Government data) whether the procedures they are putting in place comply to HMG Data Security Standards and if this has been verified by a CLAS Security Consultant. If not, why not ?

That should put the bejesus up their asses !!