That Wild Billy Letter - FoIA request to OFT and ICO decision

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Re: That Wild Billy Letter

Pages 11 to 15.

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Re: That Wild Billy Letter

Pages 16 to 17.

[Amethyst]

Re: That Wild Billy Letter

Original request for information as follows;

1. How many OFT staff and/or man-hours were dedicated to the credit card investigation?

2. On what date was the decision made to begin an investigation into these charges? Who made that decision? Please supply the advice recommending an investigation and documentation that confirms this decision, redacting any information that you feel is exempt.

3. Please supply the documents outlining advice/recommendations provided to you or others in senior management about agreeing to a £12 investigation limit, redacting any information that you feel is exempt.


4. On what date did the investigation begin?

5. How many complaints did the OFT receive about credit card default charges in the 24 months prior to taking the decision to investigate? Please provide this by month or quarter, whichever is easier. If information for that period is not available, please supply the number of complaints over whatever period featured in your consideration.

6. How many complaints did Consumer Direct receive about credit card default charges in the 24 months prior to taking the decision to investigate? Please provide this by month or quarter, whichever is easier. If information for that period is not available, please supply the number of complaints over whatever period featured in your consideration.


7. How many complaints have been received by the OFT and Consumer Direct about credit card default charges since the OFT’s announcement that £12 is the threshold for action? Of these, how many relate to charges in excess of that threshold? (The Unfair Contract Terms Regulations (sic) place a duty on the OFT to consider complaints it receives so please explain why it did not consider taking action sooner).

9. Please give dates of external meetings held during the course of the investigation and who attended. This is not a request for details of discussion at these meetings. If you feel individual persons cannot be named then I am happy to receive a list of organisations attending each meeting.


10. Please give dates of correspondence between the OFT and those credit card lenders you were consulting with.


11. Please provide any models used by the OFT to calculate that £12 should be the threshold for action. This is not a request for any information supplied by the credit card lenders to populate the model

So requests 2 and 4 the OFT are being ticked off for not supplying within 20 days of the request.

2. On what date was the decision made to begin an investigation into these charges? Who made that decision? Please supply the advice recommending an investigation and documentation that confirms this decision, redacting any information that you feel is exempt.

4. On what date did the investigation begin?

The answers given in the original werent satisfactory, do they have to refine those answers also ? No they don't - so sometime in 2003 is deemed sufficient and the general level of the person /people making the decision is also deemed sufficient.

The rest they get away with not giving the information due to cost (being over £420?) but they need to supply you with a formal refusal notice.

You can refine your requests to ask for information that will fall outside sec 12 ? I assume that that would mean break it down to ask a single specific question as the original request barr 2 and 4 have been joined together.

Am going to have a another read through. Well done on following this through thus far.

Are there any penalties for the breaches or simply being ordered to comply ?

So what next?


also any chance you can print all the pages to PDF so its one document to read, is a PITB reading all the different attachements. pretty please

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Re: That Wild Billy Letter - FoIA request to OFT and ICO decision

I'm still looking at it.

You can pretty please me all you like luv - I can't PDF.

[Curlyben]

Re: That Wild Billy Letter - FoIA request to OFT and ICO decision

Give me 10 mins

Or even less.

Here you go>

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Re: That Wild Billy Letter - FoIA request to OFT and ICO decision

Thanks CB!

[Amethyst]

Re: That Wild Billy Letter - FoIA request to OFT and ICO decision

thanks Curly xxxx much easier to read

[Amethyst]

Re: That Wild Billy Letter - FoIA request to OFT and ICO decision

Can we ask for information pertaining to this section of the FSA Waiver under FOI or is it going to be commercially whatsited and used the (in confidence) bit? Somehow I don't believe this has been followed at all. there must be some basic information that would be covered under FOI. Number of requests, requests turned down etc.

Changes to charges:
(21)
the firm must not make any change to the level or structure of its unauthorised overdraft charges. If the firm proposes to do so, then it may apply (in confidence) to the FSA for a variation of this condition. The FSA would expect to grant the variation if the firm satisfied the FSA that the proposed changes are not materially adverse to its customers. In advance of any such application, the firm must conduct an analysis of the proposed changes to identify the extent of any adverse effect on customers and share the analysis with the FSA. The firm must pay particular attention to the impact on customers who are unable to modify their behaviour in response to changes to unauthorised overdraft charges.

Also whats happening with the original questions ?

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Re: That Wild Billy Letter - FoIA request to OFT and ICO decision

Good idea.

I didn't realise banks had to apply to the FSA before changing their T&Cs.

When (I think it was Lloyds) changed their T&Cs, the FSA didn't seem too interested:

"Have they moved the charges definitively against the interests of their customers? We have not seen any evidence of that."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7105911.stm

I can't see why they shouldn't give overall numbers on applications to change T&Cs if the figures are not bank specific, in the same way they gave us the figures on hardship claims.

I'll knock a request up but someone other than myself will need to submit it as the FSA have officially deemed me as 'vexatious' (a badge I wear with a certain honour) and they have completely ignored my last one.

On the one pending with the OFT, we're waiting for the OFT to get back to us as per the 'Steps Required' in the ICO's Decision Notice before we decide our next step:

''In line with it's duty contained at section 16 of the Act, the OFT should contact the complainant promptly and in any event no later than 35 calander days from the date of this notice and provide further advice and assistance as outlined in paragraph 52 in order to assist the complainant's in clarifiying their requests. Having received a refined request OFT should either provide the complainant with the information requested in line with it's duty under section 1 of the Act or provide the complainant with a refusal notice under section 17 of the Act''.

In other words, subject to any exemptions they can come up with, the OFT need to give us advice on the remaining information up to the £600 threshold for finding, it by 15 January.

[Amethyst]

Re: That Wild Billy Letter - FoIA request to OFT and ICO decision

Cool that will be interesting what they come up with from their 26 files then.

I'm happy to submit the FOI request to the FSA, just a hand wording it formally would be great. Its bugged me for ages that the banks just seem to ignore what suits them in the waiver and get away with everything. I assume the FOI would exclude the names of the banks who may or may not have applied to vary their terms.

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Re: That Wild Billy Letter - FoIA request to OFT and ICO decision

Ok I'll put it together and perhaps ask Billy to help.

I'm sure we won't get anything that's bank specific but if the request is worded the right way it mat be that we could shed some light on which banks have done what through the process of elimination.

As WB once told me - and which I've adopted as my sig on PC - ''In life, it's not the answers you get but the questions you ask''.

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Re: That Wild Billy Letter - FoIA request to OFT and ICO decision

Here you go Ame, let me know if I've covered what you want.

The e-mail address is Freedom of Information



Dear Sir

I wish to make a request for information under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

My request pertains to the banks’ Complaints Handling Waivers issued by the FSA on 26 July 2007 and 26 July 2008 and in particular section 21 of the Waiver Direction - monthly reporting - ‘Changes to charges’.

The information I seek comprises of 7 elements.

Request

1) Please supply me with the total number of applications to date that the FSA has received from personal current account providers to change the level and/or structure of unauthorised overdraft charges.

2) Please supply me with the dates the above applications were submitted to the FSA.

3) Please supply me with the total number of applications to date that were granted by the FSA in their original form.

4) Please supply me with the total number of applications to date that were not granted by the FSA in their original form.

5) Please supply me with the total number of applications received by the FSA that are currently pending.

6) Does the FSA conduct it’s own analysis to satisfy itself that the proposed changes to the structure and/or level of charges are not materially adverse to its customers?

7) Does the FSA consult any other body, such as the FSA Consumer Panel, when considering applications?

Please note that I am not requesting any firm specific information or any information that could be considered as commercially sensitive and exempt under s.43 of the act. I have considered this request carefully, checking each element against the exemptions in the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and I am confident that all the information requested should be provided and if you fail to provide the information requested then I will submit a complaint to the Complaints Commissioner. If I am unsatisfied with that response then I will make a complaint to the Information Commissioner and ask him to make a Decision Notice requiring the FSA to release the information.

I look forward to your acknowledgement of this request in due course and your full response within 20 working days, in accordance with the Act.

[Amethyst]

Re: That Wild Billy Letter - FoIA request to OFT and ICO decision

Perfect. You are a star. And thanks Billy

Natwest have just introduced their new ones, and suprisingly they don't make things better for consumers. This should be very interesting.

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Re: That Wild Billy Letter - FoIA request to OFT and ICO decision

Actually I didn't specifically ask him to help with it although I did shamelessly plagiarise some stuff from his other requests.

Is this the second time Natwest have changed their T&Cs since the waiver and has any bank changed them twice?

[Amethyst]

Re: That Wild Billy Letter - FoIA request to OFT and ICO decision

pmsl nothing wrong with a bit of shameless plagurism.

Natwest changed in November, this new one comes in in April with further changes in June.

Bit previous I think considering.

Barclays, Lloyds, HBOS, Natwest...and I'm pretty sure the others have too - Barclays and HBOS are the main ones with their major changes to the way overdrafts and fees are handled. I can't imagine that the FSA had this bit and actually passed Barclays changes through ''In advance of any such application, the firm must conduct an analysis of the proposed changes to identify the extent of any adverse effect on customers and share the analysis with the FSA. The firm must pay particular attention to the impact on customers who are unable to modify their behaviour in response to changes to unauthorised overdraft charges.''