Desperately need help please

[Emmajones1921]

My son assaulted a paedophile and is being charged with ABH and hate crime. We went to the Magistrates court and my son pleaded not guilty on the advice of his solicitor. He now has a Crown court date in 4 weeks. When my son was first accused of this I went through his Facebook messages and he had be sent a large amount of messages regarding this paedophile and another boy who was 14 years old. The messages are explicit. My son had them sent to him via a friend of a friend. I took them to the police who photocopied them and told me they knew of this paedophile. I was very concerned for other children in our area. My son was then re interviewed and the messages I took in were being used against him! They said it was to set this paedophile up. This is utter rubbish and the dates didn't even match with the assault. The paedophile was arrested but claimed he had been set up and it had been my son messaging him. If my son had pleaded guilty in the Magistrates court he would of been given 1 - 3 years in prison but now he could get more. His solicitor said that if the paedophile doesn't show up in court it will get thrown out? Is this true? Also if I started telling people he's a paedophile would it make things worse? I know what my son did was wrong but this peado needs stopping and the police don't seem to be doing anything. Any advice on this matter would be greatfully appreciated. Thank you

[Openlaw15]

Re: Desperately need help please

My son assaulted a paedophile and is being charged with ABH and hate crime. We went to the Magistrates court and my son pleaded not guilty on the advice of his solicitor. He now has a Crown court date in 4 weeks. When my son was first accused of this I went through his Facebook messages and he had be sent a large amount of messages regarding this paedophile and another boy who was 14 years old. The messages are explicit. My son had them sent to him via a friend of a friend. I took them to the police who photocopied them and told me they knew of this paedophile. I was very concerned for other children in our area. My son was then re interviewed and the messages I took in were being used against him! They said it was to set this paedophile up. This is utter rubbish and the dates didn't even match with the assault. The paedophile was arrested but claimed he had been set up and it had been my son messaging him. If my son had pleaded guilty in the Magistrates court he would of been given 1 - 3 years in prison but now he could get more. His solicitor said that if the paedophile doesn't show up in court it will get thrown out? Is this true? Also if I started telling people he's a paedophile would it make things worse? I know what my son did was wrong but this peado needs stopping and the police don't seem to be doing anything. Any advice on this matter would be greatfully appreciated. Thank you

Assault = threatening behaviour, ie threatening to punch and the other believes it will end up as punch for example. Can you explain how the assault had taken place? Battery is when there is a physical strike result in some contact, ie some harm: ie ABH (actual bodily harm).

What previous defences did your son use at the time on the advice of the solicitor. What defences did your son use when being interviewed by the police? What defence did your son use at the time of the advice of the solicitor, ie before or during the Magistrates' hearing. The reason I say this is when he was cautioned by the police, 'any thing you say now... will be taken down and used in evidence...it 'may' affect any defence you wish to later rely on.

In your situation: criminal defence: acting to help another person.

Is the paedophile being charged with conspiracy or criminal attempt for what he was doing on face book?

[Emmajones1921]

Re: Desperately need help please

Hi, thank you for your reply.
My son was told all the way through to "no comment" everything. The paedophile was arrested and put on bail but the police won't tell me what if anything has happened to him.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Desperately need help please

Hi, thank you for your reply.
My son was told all the way through to "no comment" everything. The paedophile was arrested and put on bail but the police won't tell me what if anything has happened to him.

Hello Emma,

How old is your son? Did he arrange to meet this alleged sexual predator (am being careful with my words but not saying it's not factual), ie pretending to be a younger person. This is what we call entrapment. As for hate crime, I believe it relates to people being discriminated against such as disabled, elderly people etc. What is the name of the law the police have charged your son with? Is it just generally assault, ie Offence against the Person Act? Has your son got a criminal record other than assault, has he received any caution, or were any charges dropped by the police for any offences? All these things matter when the Crown Court is passing sentence. Mystery1, another legal beagle may have some knowledge about sentence guidelines etc. If your son is a youth the court may treat him differently ie non custodial sentences.

When a person remains silent or no comment, the police/ courts can see it as sign of guilt, the term is 'adverse inference.' However, I believe another beagle Desm states there was another rule or law where the adverse inference is limited to its use.

What is the current lawyer advising, assuming he has lawyer currently.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Desperately need help please

My son assaulted a paedophile and is being charged with ABH and hate crime. We went to the Magistrates court and my son pleaded not guilty on the advice of his solicitor. He now has a Crown court date in 4 weeks. When my son was first accused of this I went through his Facebook messages and he had be sent a large amount of messages regarding this paedophile and another boy who was 14 years old. The messages are explicit. My son had them sent to him via a friend of a friend. I took them to the police who photocopied them and told me they knew of this paedophile. I was very concerned for other children in our area. My son was then re interviewed and the messages I took in were being used against him! They said it was to set this paedophile up. This is utter rubbish and the dates didn't even match with the assault. The paedophile was arrested but claimed he had been set up and it had been my son messaging him. If my son had pleaded guilty in the Magistrates court he would of been given 1 - 3 years in prison but now he could get more. His solicitor said that if the paedophile doesn't show up in court it will get thrown out? Is this true? Also if I started telling people he's a paedophile would it make things worse? I know what my son did was wrong but this peado needs stopping and the police don't seem to be doing anything. Any advice on this matter would be greatfully appreciated. Thank you

The law in this country unfortunately protects paedophiles, so yes it will make further problems for your son. The police have a cyber unit online watching paedophiles: 2013 Court Act so now the police will be watching him (the paedophile). However, if your son makes any further statement against the 'sick individual' which results in his harm or harassment or it leads your sons friends to harass or stalk him, he could face a further cyber offence for on line offences. The paedo's defence lawyer will use any evidence you have against the paedophile against your son if it benefits him (paedo's), which may mean that the paedo either gets off or gets a reduced sentence.

The prosecution will ask for a full disclosure of all the evidence at a preliminary hearing, or the defence will.

My advice is for your son to concentrate on his own case and leave the matters to others. Tell your son to distance himself from his friends if they know he is trolling or stalking the paedo.

[Emmajones1921]

Re: Desperately need help please

Hi, thank you for your replies. What I would really like to know is if the paedophile doesn't show up in court would it be thrown out please? My sons solicitor thinks it will but I'm not sure.
Thank you

[Amethyst]

Re: Desperately need help please

I'm not so sure that's right either. It's not a private prosecution it'll be the CPS prosecuting so whether the victim turns up in court is neither here nor there? If he is meant to stand as Witness then HE would get in trouble for it but it wouldn't mean the case against your son is dropped. But Criminal isn't my area whatsoever I'm afraid.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Desperately need help please

I'm not so sure that's right either. It's not a private prosecution it'll be the CPS prosecuting so whether the victim turns up in court is neither here nor there? If he is meant to stand as Witness then HE would get in trouble for it but it wouldn't mean the case against your son is dropped. But Criminal isn't my area whatsoever I'm afraid.

Hello, Emma

Update: this is provided on the limited facts that am aware off. Emma is clearly omitting details more likely to protect her son. That's ok, but I can't give specifics if I don't know specific. For instance, did the police see the assault in person? Were there witnesses when your son assaulted the paedophile in person.

Amethyst: However, the prosecution's witness is the paedophile so without him it's a hearsay case. ie no cross examination by the defence (your son's). The only evidence in absence of the defendant is hearsay: online statements without the person who makes the allegations. The police will be a witness too more likely than not, but the police only have hearsay evidence too, access to the online evidence. Depending on the type of offence, it's likely the prosecution has to prove intent (ie mens rea, guilty mind) against your son, not just the criminal act itself. However, the account between the paedophile and your son is essentially the paedo's word versus your son. The prosecution will, because your son's defence will tell them to, order a disclosure of the paedophile's sexual offences or anything to prove the paedo is not a credible witness, ie his mind is so sick and deranged he can't tell truth from fiction.

Let's just say the case could be dropped if the material witness doesn't show up. So there is part truth in the statement but I wouldn't rely on this. The likelihood is he will turn up and he has a criminal record and will be on the child offenders list. T he paedophile is already on his local police's radar so, if he does something wrong ie make false allegations of 'hate crime' when he himself was the perpetrator he may have breached his probation terms so will return to prison, more likely given the strong public interest to keep kids safe. You say the police know of him so he likely has a record for potentially several paedo-type offences. It seems if he doesn't turn up the magistrate will order a warrant for his arrest - as he poses a danger to his community. I have not checked criminal procedure at this point.