Remove Anti-Homeless Spikes! Will you sign this petition? I have.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Remove Anti-Homeless Spikes! Will you sign this petition? I have.

This is just so horrifying it's hard to believe it's really happening ...now... here... in our country..

The spikes themselves are not the real problem though but the fact that there should be people sleeping rough in a so-called "rich country" like this one, as well as the responses from local authorities to the problem, such as the one I mentioned above, filmed live on TV. :mad2:

I do like the idea of "Bankers' spikes". (Joke, in case it offends).
Will sign, of course - and hang my head in shame that we can't change the ethos of such a "society".

I love that idea! :clap2: :clap2:

...even though I used to work in the infamou$ $quare MiŁe!

[Wombats]

Re: Remove Anti-Homeless Spikes! Will you sign this petition? I have.

I don't think it is the ethos of our society, I think its some to$$er developers being to$$ers. I don't believe it is that prevalent either. But the furore about it IS raising thoughts and publicity about how we help people with housing issues in our capital city.

I agree and it's a good thing these pictures have come into the news, even if they've been around for years - that doesn't justify them at all. If it serves to raise the issue of homelessness, the many health issues associated with that and the issue of housing stock, people being unable to live because of the 'bedroom tax' etc.... then all to the good.

As for the developers that put them there, one can only assume they're as big pricks as the spikes are!

[Crazy council]

Re: Remove Anti-Homeless Spikes! Will you sign this petition? I have.

Is it wrong to think these can be ok, in certain circumstances, or other deterrents.

I think if they took a realistic approach to addictions, both alcohol and drugs, IE, anyone arrested clearly not in control of an addiction, locked up for 4 weeks immediately to safley cold turkey. have the council and probation severs find them houseing and monitor there addictions for a few months, the councils should employ people getting over addictions on the bins or street clearance, ect. Keep them busy in the day or night for six months, get them functioning in society again..

It might seem a bit harsh, but if you can deal with the addiction, then occupy people with a job, a lot of the other problems, including mental ones, dont have such an impact on there lives.

[enaid]

Re: Remove Anti-Homeless Spikes! Will you sign this petition? I have.

Just a small example of the problem

http://www.frameworkha.org/blog/356_...pen_to_anybody

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Remove Anti-Homeless Spikes! Will you sign this petition? I have.

I think if they took a realistic approach to addictions, both alcohol and drugs, IE, anyone arrested clearly not in control of an addiction, locked up for 4 weeks immediately to safley cold turkey. have the council and probation severs find them houseing and monitor there addictions for a few months, the councils should employ people getting over addictions on the bins or street clearance, ect. Keep them busy in the day or night for six months, get them functioning in society again..

Fair enough in principle (with a few tweaks IMHO) for those who are, in fact addicts.

...but, as can be seen on the link below, not all homeless people are addicts.

http://www.frameworkha.org/blog/356_...pen_to_anybody

It might seem a bit harsh, but if you can deal with the addiction, then occupy people with a job,

As it stands, there aren't enough jobs for those who are non-addicts, skilled and being pushed into work by the DWP with their constant threat of sanctions! WHO is going to provide jobs for all these addicts?

a lot of the other problems, including mental ones, dont have such an impact on there lives.

Actually, mental health issues DO have a BIG impact on people's lives, not least their ability to work to start with.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Remove Anti-Homeless Spikes! Will you sign this petition? I have.

In principle there should be no homeless people in the UK since we have housing benefit. Claiming HB when you are already a tenant is generally not a problem since your landlord doesn't have to be informed of the claim. However, finding a place to rent when you are already in receipt of benefits and would expect to be a HB tenant is a different story, since most landlords and letting agents refuse to accept HB tenants for various reasons.

I don't know the ins and outs of the benefits systems in other countries, but I've heard other systems provide help with housing regardless of whether you are a tenant or a homeowner, while in the UK support for mortgage interest is rather limited and subject to a long wait. At some point the waiting period was as high as nine months!!! :scared: It was only reduced after the credit crunch, presumably to stop a wave of repossessions and the impact they would have on the economy rather than to help struggling homeowners as such.

There are other issues that can only make matters worse, such as benefits cuts, including low LHAs vs raising rents in many areas and the infamou$ bedroom tax, not to mention the decision to increase the age for a single person to qualify for a one bed flat LHA, to 35! That's utterly ridiculous! :rant: :rant: :rant: :mad2: :mad2:

There was someone here not long ago facing homelessness after losing their job and not being able to get HB to pay for their one bed flat in London since they were just under 35, even when they had been able to afford the rent when they were working.

[Wombats]

Re: Remove Anti-Homeless Spikes! Will you sign this petition? I have.

A great link Enaid, and while agreeing with the thrust of Clever Council's post, one thing I was going to comment on was this part:

the councils should employ people getting over addictions on the bins or street clearance, ect.

Some of these people (such as my stepson) have excellent brains. Working on the bins or cleaning streets is exactly the sort of thing which put him in the position he is - menial jobs (or no available jobs) leading to boredom. As the saying goes, 'the devil makes work for idle hands.' He'd be better going to college to do something which interests him and he is a pool of knowledge on many issues, his general knowledge in lots of areas is massively superior to mine and when he finds a hole, he is like an eager child wanting to plug it.

I know what you're saying though and I think you're pretty much right. As Enaid has pointed out as well, many homeless are not addicts of any kind, just people to whom life has dealt a tough hand. There have been times with my illness where I've come very close to it. Experiencing just a few days of being 'out there' with no money, no food, no drink, no phone, nowhere to go is terrifying. The way in which these people manage to survive long term puts them up massively in my estimation. They deserve medals not stigmatising!


EDIT: Sorry FP, crossed post.

[Wombats]

Re: Remove Anti-Homeless Spikes! Will you sign this petition? I have.

This is a REALLY interesting link:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...y-country.html

[Crazy council]

Re: Remove Anti-Homeless Spikes! Will you sign this petition? I have.

A great link Enaid, and while agreeing with the thrust of Clever Council's post, one thing I was going to comment on was this part:

Some of these people (such as my stepson) have excellent brains. Working on the bins or cleaning streets is exactly the sort of thing which put him in the position he is - menial jobs (or no available jobs) leading to boredom. As the saying goes, 'the devil makes work for idle hands.' He'd be better going to college to do something which interests him and he is a pool of knowledge on many issues, his general knowledge in lots of areas is massively superior to mine and when he finds a hole, he is like an eager child wanting to plug it.

I know what you're saying though and I think you're pretty much right. As Enaid has pointed out as well, many homeless are not addicts of any kind, just people to whom life has dealt a tough hand. There have been times with my illness where I've come very close to it. Experiencing just a few days of being 'out there' with no money, no food, no drink, no phone, nowhere to go is terrifying. The way in which these people manage to survive long term puts them up massively in my estimation. They deserve medals not stigmatising!


EDIT: Sorry FP, crossed post.

Hi, sorry i did not meen to come across like that,:doggieyes:

i have much sympathy and understanding... What i ment about the cleaning and such jobs, was more meant for the ..... less functional addicts... the people that have next to no chace of a job before they work for a year or so.... thats what i ment, use public services to get the people who would nto be able to function YET in a working environment...

I have always thought that employment in public services should start with, the disabled, the unemployable, then X armed services.

I do get that all homeless are not addicts, but, if you can deal with teh adicts, it will make it easier to identify other peoples problems... I know forced detox may seem a bit harsh, but no ones addicted through choice......

[wales01man]

Re: Remove Anti-Homeless Spikes! Will you sign this petition? I have.

Caring world we live in?
Problem lies with both Society and some individuals for every problem people face there is and must be help available those in need must seek help and Authorities must offer the help.

We can bailout a few bankers with billions but cannot treat human beings as they should be everyone deserves help

[MissFM]

Re: Remove Anti-Homeless Spikes! Will you sign this petition? I have.

I think there is an inherent problem with housing benefit which is that it artificially inflates rents. This means that money intended to help people in need of homes is deflected to enrich landlords who are taking advantage of a business opportunity to raise rents to the maximum that HB will pay, rents then rise etc., etc..

Badly put.

Just saying.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Remove Anti-Homeless Spikes! Will you sign this petition? I have.

I think there is an inherent problem with housing benefit which is that it artificially inflates rents. This means that money intended to help people in need of homes is deflected to enrich landlords who are taking advantage of a business opportunity to raise rents to the maximum that HB will pay, rents then rise etc., etc..

HB doesn't cover must rents in full, not since they changed it to be based on the lower 30% rather than the mean as it used to be.

The worst thing is that it's not even the landlords who are the real beneficiaries but the infamou$ bank$. These days most landlords have mortgages and most of the rent goes towards the mortgage, so the tax money ends up going back to the banks! :rant: :rant: :rant:

[MissFM]

Re: Remove Anti-Homeless Spikes! Will you sign this petition? I have.

It's very odd, though FP. Particularly down here. There are many private landlords that do charge way over the odds (rents are naturally quite low) because HB will pay it, even though most not on HB (or banker's remuneration) couldn't afford to pay that rent and it doesn't reflect a true market value. Thus rents get inflated - more become homeless - the law of unintended consequences.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Remove Anti-Homeless Spikes! Will you sign this petition? I have.

It's very odd, though FP. Particularly down here. There are many private landlords that do charge way over the odds (rents are naturally quite low) because HB will pay it, even though most not on HB (or banker's remuneration) couldn't afford to pay that rent and it doesn't reflect a true market value.

Round here most landlords don't want HB tenants... :rant: :rant: :rant:

[MissFM]

Re: Remove Anti-Homeless Spikes! Will you sign this petition? I have.

Here it's welcomed (even though agents discourage it due to insurance restrictions) because HB means that at least the rent actually gets paid (unusual) and also is set at a level above what the normal market value would be.

Just my observation and opinion - the real point being that (expensive) measures intended to help people with very limited resources, and/or dependent on the State, to have/keep homes do have the opposite effect in practice.