Fighting the uk gagging law

[Amethyst]

Re: Fighting the uk gagging law

Ah, as I was reading it, it appears to level the playing field for campaign groups and lobbyists meaning large, rich, organisations cannot outspend smaller organisations on publicising issues and encouraging the general public to think their way. But maybe that's what I'm supposed to think lol.

[charitynjw]

Re: Fighting the uk gagging law

One of the bones of contention has been that the 'cap' is inclusive of the actual running costs of a campaign, something that 'Big Business' does not necessarily incur.

[MissFM]

Re: Fighting the uk gagging law

I wanted to say something erudite here but am going to have a little rant instead, sorry, hope that's alright.

It is yet another example of government making gratuitous laws (because they can) without taking into account the unavoidable Natural Laws, hence there will be unintended consequences.

In tune with Newtonian physics, to paraphrase - every action begets an equal and opposite reaction. Natural Law works inexorably throughout the universe (the multiverse for all I know), on the psychological and political level as well as the physical. Because we can't rule nature, we need fewer man-made laws, retaining only the sensible, benign and enforceable within a tolerant society that nurtures civil liberties.

That over with, this particular law is ill-conceived partly for the reasons that Charity has touched on and, if passed, will no doubt further stifle debate as well as strengthen the distorting power that money-and-greed has over politics and our political destiny.

There are pages and pages of analysis referenced on the 38 degrees website and elsewhere (it is heavy going but Chaz has summed up one of the dangers ...)

Update:

Yesterday evening, MPs narrowly voted in favour of the gagging law. It now moves to the House of Lords, where it will start being debated in two weeks. So we haven't yet seen off this threat to democracy. This is disappointing - I'd love to be emailing today to let you know we'd stopped it once and for all. But it's in no sense the end. By making the vote so close, we've got a strong chance of reversing it in the House of Lords. I wanted to update you on what's happened and what happens next. And I wanted to ask for your feedback on what we should do next. But above all I wanted to say THANK YOU, for everything that 38 Degrees members have done so far. It's been truly amazing and has had a huge impact. I'd love to hear your thoughts in response – please just hit reply on this email, keeping the subject line the same. I will work with the rest of the office team to read through your thoughts over the next few days. So, what's happened so far? There was a fiery debate and a big rebellion in parliament yesterday. Only Lib Dem and Conservative MPs voted in favour. In total, across three crunch votes, it looks like 19 coalition MPs rebelled. [1] To get 19 Lib Dem and Conservative MPs to vote against the gagging law was in no small part down to the amazing efforts of 38 Degrees members. Working together with some of Britain's most loved voluntary organisations, we made sure every MP felt under pressure. Several more Lib Dem MPs rebelled compared to previous votes on the gagging law - after 38 Degrees members and many other organisations ramped up the pressure on them. The leaflets, posters, and meetings we organised made a clear difference. I have found it incredibly inspiring to see everything 38 Degrees members have done on this campaign. Thousands of us have come together to defend free speech. All across the UK, 38 Degrees members have been defending our right to get organised and speak up on the issues that matter to us. Here are just a few of the things I've seen: Over a quarter of a million emails, phone calls and tweets to MPs Over 100 face-to-face meetings with MPs Over £120,000 raised to fund leaflets, adverts and events A brilliant rally outside Parliament, where 38 Degrees members joined supporters of dozens of other groups to stand up for free speech (have a look at some lovely photos of that here: http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2013/10/09/rally-for-freedom-of-speech-2/) Last Friday, I sat at the back of a public meeting about the gagging law called by Tom Brake MP. He’s one of the Lib Dem ministers pushing the gagging law through. The 38 Degrees members were fantastic - I watched them put Tom Brake on the spot with searching questions and powerful arguments. He looked increasingly shifty and irritated as the evening went on. I felt so proud to be part of a network that stands up for the truth and refuses to be fobbed off by those in power! Chatting to 38 Degrees members after that event gave me a powerful reminder of what is at stake with this campaign. There is so much going wrong with our democracy. Political parties aren't trusted. Politicians are too often in it for themselves. Corporate and industry lobbyists have way too much influence. We need independent organisations, voluntary groups, campaign groups like 38 Degrees, to give ordinary people a voice. So, what will happen next? In the coming weeks, the gagging law will be voted on by the House of Lords. We need to try to persuade the Lords to get stuck in and block it. I think we can do it. There are reasons why convincing the Lords won’t be that easy: The Lords are unelected. So we can't try to influence them "as their voters" in the way we can with MPs. A large number of peers are Lib Dems or Conservatives – and they will be under pressure from their party bosses to toe the government line. But there are also some reasons to be optimistic: Lords tend to be more willing to challenge government legislation when it has been rushed through and where there hasn't been proper consultation. That definitely applies this time! Many peers are patrons and board members of voluntary organisations and charities which would be hit by the gagging law. This means they should have reason to be concerned. An independent "commission on civil society and democracy" has been set up with the support of dozens of voluntary organisations – and will provide the Lords with serious recommendations. It is chaired by an influential, nonparty Lord – Richard Harries, the former Bishop of Oxford. [2] 38 Degrees members learnt a lot about how to influence members of the House of Lords from our NHS campaign last year. [3] So, there will be a lot to do over the next couple of months. I would love to hear your thoughts on how we approach this – please just hit reply to this e-mail, leaving the subject line the same. I'm planning to spend a couple of days reading through the suggestions. There's so much I'd appreciate feedback on. What extra information would you like to be receiving? Is the office sending you too many emails, or not enough? Is it time to start ramping up other campaigns again e.g. fracking, NHS, zero hours? What should we do next to influence the House of Lords? Looking forward to hearing from you - and once again, thank you for all you're doing. David PS: Check out this video which explains the gagging law, and share with your friends: PPS: You can see how your MP voted, here: https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/gagging-law-3rd-reading-votes. Over the next week, we will need to send thank you letters to those MPs who did the right thing, and follow-up message to those who didn't, asking them to explain themselves. NOTES: [1] There were three vital votes in Parliament last night on the gagging law. The first (amendment 101) was a vote on what sort of expenditure would fall within the law, whilst the second (amendment 102) was a vote to raise the spending limits imposed by the law on non-party organisations. The third important vote was the "Third Reading", which was a vote on the whole gagging law. On amendment 101, ten Coalition MPs rebelled (7 Conservative and 3 Liberal Democrats). On amendment 102, fourteen Coalition MPs rebelled (10 Conservative and 4 Liberal Democrats). On the Third Reading, eleven Coalition MPs rebelled (4 Conservative and 7 Liberal Democrats). In total, it looks like nineteen Coalition MPs rebelled on at least one of the important votes (10 Conservatives and 9 Liberal Democrats). The office team will crunch together the data on the various votes over the next few days and send you info on how your MP voted as soon as we're confident it's 100% accurate. [2] Civil Society Commission website: http://civilsocietycommission.info/ [3] Save our NHS action centre: https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/pages/save_our_nhs_action_centre

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[Amethyst]

Re: Fighting the uk gagging law

Rant away

My MP voted against. He is Dennis Skinner so it is unsuprising.

I'm not sure I disagree with the changes (but of course don't quote me on that as I havent read everything yet) surely it will allow other voices to be heard that were previously drowned out and give a more even playing field.

Mind you I disagree quite emphatically with the school meals decision as well, so maybe I'm just not in the 38 degrees campaign mindset. I'll have a read of CAB and other organisations thoughts and the debates to break through the hype. I read the legal opinions and the nvco document just haven't had much time to go further. (not that I think it matters one iota what I think, it'd just be nice to be up to speed enough to have a solid opinion which at the moment I don't)

[MissFM]

Re: Fighting the uk gagging law

Yes, the (FMPOV) attractive thing about 38 degrees is that you don't have to agree with all their campaigns, which are initiated by members. You just choose the ones you do agree with/feel passionately enough to act on and the energy is channeled into that single issue. They campaign on a number of issues with which I disagree strongly and a number on which I feel ambivalent but joining doesn't commit you to supporting any other view than your own

[Amethyst]

Re: Fighting the uk gagging law

So they are a campaigning group - do they do other work as well ? ie. as a group solely set up for campaigning they will be hit hardest by the changes - £1.1 million a year costs with 15 full time staff ?. I suppose the difference between them and an organisation like CAB is that they campaign as well as do other stuff so can filter budgets about to suit more than solid campaigning. (Not based on anything I was just thinking while looking at their website)

[MissFM]

Re: Fighting the uk gagging law

That's what I understand them to be - and I think genuine grassroots. Haven't a clue about the CAB (which I thought was anyway government funded?) or the wider general financial implications - but no, I don't think 38degrees does anything but campaign and lobby government on discrete issues. The particular case ("gagging law") I believe to be a Trojan Horse - yet another erosion of civil liberties. FMPOV such things need to be fought.

It is, of course, not impossible that I'm wrong and have complete confidence that, if so, it will be made abundantly clear

[labman]

Re: Fighting the uk gagging law

CAB are very clever. Each branch is an individual charity in itself, so has it's own voice and receives government and a lot of other funding streams -eg- http://www.boltoncab.co.uk/ just one of loads of examples, it happened to be the first I came across.

So they all exist as separate entities, but also, each is part of The National Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux, a huge charity comprising all the individual member charities.

With something like the gagging bill, they will be able to campaign individually and collectively, so they get many bites of the biscuit. If there is an holistic view against a policy, each individual CAB will be able to campaign, and the NACAB will also be able to campaign. A neat little way round the system.

I discovered this (and the abuse that goes on within it by claiming to be one charity one minute and part of the bigger charity the next) when I had a little battle a couple of years ago with them. While some undoubtedly do very good work, they are fierrcely defensive of their status, and will try to bring their full weight to bear on any small local charity setting up in order tog et it closed down. They don't appear to like competition. I have kept solid, documented evidence of this systematic abuse to try to close down my first charity. The one quote I remember, I think it came directly from Gillian Guy herself, was, "We must protect our brand at all costs." This is not a very charitable outlook!

Linked to this, the local Community Centre receives funding depending on attracting, say, the CAB to appear once a week to offer advice there (whether or not the CAB actually bother to turn up!), and additional funding for just how many clients they get through the doors to see the CAB bods.

Thus, if a local charity wants to set up to help local people, they find they have a massive battle on their hands if there is any overlap with CAB in particular, as they find CAB want them closed down, AND the local Community Centres want them closed down as they could have a knock on effect to their funding. The Community Centre is another charity with another voice on policy, but don't tell me they're not going to be influenced in their view by the views of one of their major funding streams.

It is a really interesting situation to work through, and takes a hell of a lot of determination and battles to get there. My personal experience was I learnt the hard way with Charity 1 which they successfully shut down (Trading Standards offered to take CAB to court for their behaviour having reviewed all the evidence over two days spent in my house). When I set up Charity 2, Trading Standards were set on me, but could find not one single thing wrong, as I'd learnt first time round and the charity flourished.

Sorry, I know this is a bit off topic, but the first bit is relevant and the second bit is an area most are probably blissfully unaware of, despite the fact these organisations / charities are set up to work alongside (not compete with) the likes of CAB.

I still recommend CAB for certain things, but quality depends massively on the staff in each one if anything slightly out of the ordinary. I do so in the full knowledge of what they're really like.

I could write a similar tale about the Church of England having seen what a ruthless business that is, despite what it professes to stand for. My late Dad was a vicar, and we talked a lot in his retirement about this sort of thing.

[charitynjw]

Re: Fighting the uk gagging law

Dear xxxxxx, Yesterday evening, MPs narrowly voted in favour of the gagging law. It now moves to the House of Lords, where it will start being debated in two weeks. So we haven't yet seen off this threat to democracy. This is disappointing - I'd love to be emailing today to let you know we'd stopped it once and for all. But it's in no sense the end. By making the vote so close, we've got a strong chance of reversing it in the House of Lords. I wanted to update you on what's happened and what happens next. And I wanted to ask for your feedback on what we should do next. But above all I wanted to say THANK YOU, for everything that 38 Degrees members have done so far. It's been truly amazing and has had a huge impact. I'd love to hear your thoughts in response – please just hit reply on this email, keeping the subject line the same. I will work with the rest of the office team to read through your thoughts over the next few days. (Email address - action@38degrees.org.uk) So, what's happened so far? There was a fiery debate and a big rebellion in parliament yesterday. Only Lib Dem and Conservative MPs voted in favour. In total, across three crunch votes, it looks like 19 coalition MPs rebelled. [1] To get 19 Lib Dem and Conservative MPs to vote against the gagging law was in no small part down to the amazing efforts of 38 Degrees members. Working together with some of Britain's most loved voluntary organisations, we made sure every MP felt under pressure. Several more Lib Dem MPs rebelled compared to previous votes on the gagging law - after 38 Degrees members and many other organisations ramped up the pressure on them. The leaflets, posters, and meetings we organised made a clear difference. I have found it incredibly inspiring to see everything 38 Degrees members have done on this campaign.Thousands of us have come together to defend free speech. All across the UK, 38 Degrees members have been defending our right to get organised and speak up on the issues that matter to us. Here are just a few of the things I've seen: Over a quarter of a million emails, phone calls and tweets to MPs Over 100 face-to-face meetings with MPs Over £120,000 raised to fund leaflets, adverts and events A brilliant rally outside Parliament, where 38 Degrees members joined supporters of dozens of other groups to stand up for free speech (have a look at some lovely photos of that here:http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2013/10/09/rally-for-freedom-of-speech-2/) Last Friday, I sat at the back of a public meeting about the gagging law called by Tom Brake MP. He’s one of the Lib Dem ministers pushing the gagging law through. The 38 Degrees members were fantastic - I watched them put Tom Brake on the spot with searching questions and powerful arguments. He looked increasingly shifty and irritated as the evening went on. I felt so proud to be part of a network that stands up for the truth and refuses to be fobbed off by those in power! Chatting to 38 Degrees members after that event gave me a powerful reminder of what is at stake with this campaign. There is so much going wrong with our democracy. Political parties aren't trusted. Politicians are too often in it for themselves. Corporate and industry lobbyists have way too much influence. We need independent organisations, voluntary groups, campaign groups like 38 Degrees, to give ordinary people a voice. So, what will happen next? In the coming weeks, the gagging law will be voted on by the House of Lords. We need to try to persuade the Lords to get stuck in and block it. I think we can do it. There are reasons why convincing the Lords won’t be that easy: The Lords are unelected. So we can't try to influence them "as their voters" in the way we can with MPs. A large number of peers are Lib Dems or Conservatives – and they will be under pressure from their party bosses to toe the government line. But there are also some reasons to be optimistic: Lords tend to be more willing to challenge government legislation when it has been rushed through and where there hasn't been proper consultation. That definitely applies this time! Many peers are patrons and board members of voluntary organisations and charities which would be hit by the gagging law. This means they should have reason to be concerned. An independent "commission on civil society and democracy" has been set up with the support of dozens of voluntary organisations – and will provide the Lords with serious recommendations. It is chaired by an influential, nonparty Lord – Richard Harries, the former Bishop of Oxford. [2] 38 Degrees members learnt a lot about how to influence members of the House of Lords from our NHS campaign last year. [3] So, there will be a lot to do over the next couple of months. I would love to hear your thoughts on how we approach this – please just hit reply to this e-mail, leaving the subject line the same. I'm planning to spend a couple of days reading through the suggestions. There's so much I'd appreciate feedback on. What extra information would you like to be receiving? Is the office sending you too many emails, or not enough? Is it time to start ramping up other campaigns again e.g. fracking, NHS, zero hours? What should we do next to influence the House of Lords? Looking forward to hearing from you - and once again, thank you for all you're doing. David PS: Check out this video which explains the gagging law, and share with your friends: PPS: You can see how your MP voted, here: https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/gagging-law-3rd-reading-votes. Over the next week, we will need to send thank you letters to those MPs who did the right thing, and follow-up message to those who didn't, asking them to explain themselves. NOTES: [1] There were three vital votes in Parliament last night on the gagging law. The first (amendment 101) was a vote on what sort of expenditure would fall within the law, whilst the second (amendment 102) was a vote to raise the spending limits imposed by the law on non-party organisations. The third important vote was the "Third Reading", which was a vote on the whole gagging law. On amendment 101, ten Coalition MPs rebelled (7 Conservative and 3 Liberal Democrats). On amendment 102, fourteen Coalition MPs rebelled (10 Conservative and 4 Liberal Democrats). On the Third Reading, eleven Coalition MPs rebelled (4 Conservative and 7 Liberal Democrats). In total, it looks like nineteen Coalition MPs rebelled on at least one of the important votes (10 Conservatives and 9 Liberal Democrats). The office team will crunch together the data on the various votes over the next few days and send you info on how your MP voted as soon as we're confident it's 100% accurate. [2] Civil Society Commission website: http://civilsocietycommission.info/ [3] Save our NHS action centre: https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/pages/save_our_nhs_action_centre

[charitynjw]

Re: Fighting the uk gagging law

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ange...b_3858973.html



Angela Eagle

MP for Wallasey, Shadow Leader of the House of Commons and Chair of Labour's National Policy Forum


Let's Stop the Government's Gagging Bill

David Cameron, Issues, Angela Eagle, Lynton Crosby, Labour party, Parliament,Conservative Party, Lobbying, Lobbying Bill, UK Politics News


This afternoon I will be in the chamber leading Labour's opposition to the David Cameron's Lobbying Bill, one of the worst bits of legislation I've seen in some time.

From a prime minister who solemnly promised he'd fix our broken politics, this is a bill that does the complete opposite. It is a sop to powerful vested interests and a sinister gag on democratic debate, and it shows just how out of touch David Cameron and his government are.

Before he was elected David Cameron warned that lobbying was the next big scandal waiting to happen and he pledged that his government would act. But after three years of prevarication, during which we have seen lobbying scandal after lobbying scandal, what he's actually produced amounts to a lobbyist's charter. It is so useless that even Lynton Crosby - the tobacco lobbyist at the heart of Downing Street - wouldn't be covered by it.

Both transparency campaigners and the lobbying industry agree that the government's toothless register is actually a step backwards from the codes of conduct and sanctions that already exist. And they say that the end result of this new law will be that there is less lobbying transparency not more.

The government should rename it the 'Let Lynton Lobby Bill'.

Before the last election David Cameron used to evangelise about the 'Big Society', but the second part of the bill is a shameful attack on it. The bill makes wide ranging changes to the regulation of so-called 'third parties' in the year before the election which could mean that charities and campaigners even just raising awareness of a public policy issue would be captured and restricted.

In the words of the government's own election regulator, the Electoral Commission, this bill will have a "dampening effect" on public debate.

Over the past few weeks charities and campaigners have been speaking out in their thousands, but the government has refused to listen. The fact that they are ploughing on regardless reveals that this is a deliberate attempt to insulate their record and policies from criticism in 2015.

This is a draconian, illiberal Bill that lets vested interests off the hook but prevents civil society from having a say.

This is shocking even from the Tories, but the Liberal Democrats should be truly ashamed. In a bill that is neither liberal nor democratic, they would rather fight the Tories' corner than fight for free speech. Although, I don't suppose they'd be too upset when NUS finds it harder to hold them to account for their broken pledges on tuition fees at the next election.

This bill wouldn't stop arch-lobbyist Lynton Crosby setting the government's tobacco policy, but could stop an organisation like Cancer Research UK or the British Medical Association from campaigning about it. No wonder the British public think David Cameron stands up for the wrong people.

I'll be telling the Government this afternoon that their Bill is an affront to our democracy. They must go back to the drawing board and come forward with proposals for genuine reform.

Follow Angela Eagle on Twitter: www.twitter.com/angelaeagle

[labman]

Re: Fighting the uk gagging law

A lot of local MP's are posting on Twitter and Facebook about this, so make friends with yours on those sites to find out about this and loads of other things going on - really interesting.

If you don't know who your MP is, look them up here (LINK) , also in the Useful Links section of the Bailiff section. It takes 5 minutes of your time, and you'll reap a lifetime's worth of information - got to be worth the investment!

[Amethyst]

Re: Fighting the uk gagging law

My MP's twitter handle is @BolsoverBeast - which always makes me grin

Denis Skinner @BolsoverBeast 5h The Environment Secretary, Owen Paterson, may cull badgers by gassing them. Has he not seen wholesale gas prices? Burn goal posts instead.

pmsl


There's also some 38degrees campaign stuff about the Fire Service on there.

[charitynjw]

Re: Fighting the uk gagging law

Lol!

But I hope he doesn't succeed in abolishing the 'Lords'..................at least not before they put the kibosh on this disgraceful attack on free speech by Big Society (as long as you're rich) Dave & his mates!

[charitynjw]

Re: Fighting the uk gagging law

Dear xxxxxx,

Today the House of Lords start to debate the controversial gagging law. It’s a law that would mean ordinary people, campaigning groups and charities would be severely restricted in how they can campaign in the year before an election.

The bill was rushed through the House of Commons at breakneck speed, without any of the normal public consultation, and although there was a rebellion, it wasn’t enough to stop it. Everyone from the Royal British Legion to Oxfam has called for the government to stop and rethink the bill. [1][2]

With this in mind, dozens of charities and campaign organisations set up an independent commission to do the research that the government should have done in the first place. [3]

It’s called ‘The Commission on Civil Society and Democratic Engagement’ and it has been holding evidence sessions up and down the country listening to how the gagging law will affect a huge range of campaign organisations and charities. [4] Now they want to hear from you too.

Can you fill out a short survey telling the commissioners what you think about freedom of speech and campaigning, it won't take long:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/civil-society-commission-poll

The range of people on the commission shows how widespread concerns about the gagging law are. They come from organisations across civil society, including Mumsnet, the Countryside Alliance and the NUS. And the chair is a retired bishop.

You don’t have to be an expert to answer any of the questions. You just need to tell the commission what you think. It’s really important that they hear from as many people as possible. Imagine how powerful it will be for them to say they've heard from thousands of members of the public. It will mean Lords will feel more pressure to listen to their recommendations.

Let’s make sure that the government and Lords hear what thousands upon thousands of us think before this bill is rushed through any further.

Can you fill out a short survey and make sure the commission hears evidence from individual people as well as organisations:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/civil-society-commission-poll

Thank you for everything you do,

Robin, Blanche, Suzy, Ian and the 38 Degrees team.


NOTES:
[1] The Royal British Legion - http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/news...his-sloppy-law
[2] Oxfam - http://www.oxfam.org.uk/get-involved...ng-bill-update
[3] http://civilsocietycommission.info
[4] http://civilsocietycommission.info/consultation/

[labman]

Re: Fighting the uk gagging law

Survey competed.