Support Leveson - sign this

[teaboy2]

Re: Support Leveson - sign this

Yes i have, but we all know even judges make errors in law! And as its only a suggestion in the report, then for all we know he may not have even considered the legal implications of such legislation! Plus as she was involved, then its likely that it would have been discussed and she clearly was not satisfied with the result of such a discussion if such discussion had taken place!

Its safe to say she knows a hell of a lot more about what the implications of any proposed legislation is from her inside knowledge then what any of us know!

[Inca]

Re: Support Leveson - sign this

Yes i have, but we all know even judges make errors in law!

I would think Leveson made very very sure of his facts before he made his findings public knowing the very fabric of his statements would be ripped apart word by word.

[EXC]

Re: Support Leveson - sign this

Yes i have, but we all know even judges make errors in law! And as its only a suggestion in the report, then for all we know he may not have even considered the legal implications of such legislation! Plus as she was involved, then its likely that it would have been discussed and she clearly was not satisfied with the result of such a discussion if such discussion had taken place!

She's a lobbyist for Liberty and human rights law. And as such, and unlike Leveson, isn't exactly impartial.

[miliitant]

Re: Support Leveson - sign this

I am sorry but i cannot support legislation, ever though i hate the likes of murdoch, daily hate mail etc.

What needs to be stopped is the half truths, constant political crap these papers spin us and inuendo

The days of the red tops using tits and bums to sell papers belong well and truly in the past

Being that in the UK we are a free and open society, control of the press by state intravention is the next step in controlling the people in what they say and do. We get enough of that allready, when was the last time real bad news against the goverment was broadcast.
Legislation would curb any sort of opposition

In this country we do have the press complaints commission who are as much use as a chocolate teapot, just like all the other regulators. if we regulate the press, do we then regulate offwat. offgem, etc,etc.

Then we have the state controlling everything

I agree the press do need regulation, but not goverment statutory regulation.

Both political parties have been shown to abuse legislation, section 44 anti terrorist act, detention without trial, stop and search, bugging and moinitoring phone and internet. Even the police complaints commission is now staffed by ex coppers, how indapendent is that ? as examples

We should take a step back and not rush into public emotion and digest the true facts. The levison report is two thousend pages long and has anybody seen it let alone read it, or are we taking as gospel the facts that support a political dogama by being economical with the truth by political parties with their own agenda

in this country we have two sorts of people, those who lead, those who follow,

are you a wolf or a sheep

[teaboy2]

Re: Support Leveson - sign this

Guys even the MP's that signed and supported a letter backing legislation are now against it after reading the small print for such legislation. Small print that we as yet have not been privvy to. So they have serious concerns about the implications too.

So are we really supporting the giving up or free speech and freedom of the press to protect people that are already protected under privacy laws and libel/slander laws! All thats need it more robust punishment and forced standards for issuing retractions and apologies with clearer more obivoius publication then the standard small side article thats easily missed, all of which can be regulated and enforce by an independant regulator free of legislation! Who do you thing will benefit the most from this, it will be celeb's and politicians!

Also why is leveson refusing to comment further on the matter, leading MPs to fear he will refuse an invite to appear before a commons media select committe to explain his reasoning for the need of such legislation. Thereby instructing MP's to change the law but not explaining to them why they should!

The key to this is in the small print the MP's have seen and we have not yet seen!

[miliitant]

Re: Support Leveson - sign this

it is nice to have a balanced view on this thread

for and against

even though we still do not have all the facts to make a decision

[teaboy2]

Re: Support Leveson - sign this

She's a lobbyist for Liberty and human rights law. And as such, and unlike Leveson, isn't exactly impartial.

And how is Leveson impartial. Hes a judge for christ sake, his whole career has evovled around legislation and enforcing it!

[EXC]

Re: Support Leveson - sign this

All thats need it more robust punishment and forced standards for issuing retractions and apologies with clearer more obivoius publication then the standard small side article thats easily missed, all of which can be regulated and enforce by an independant regulator free of legislation!

I've got my head in my hands.

How can an independant regulator enforce anything without the legislation which permits it to do so?

[teaboy2]

Re: Support Leveson - sign this

it is nice to have a balanced view on this thread

for and against

even though we still do not have all the facts to make a decision

I agree with you militant. We need caution here before supporting something when we do not know the effects it would have!

[miliitant]

Re: Support Leveson - sign this

has anybody considered legislation would be in violation of the Human Rights Act

Article 10: Freedom of Expression

[teaboy2]

Re: Support Leveson - sign this

Simple. All relevant news companies sign up to it and agree a to set code of conduct and punishments for breach under a legally binding agreement (pretty sure the lawyers and can work that out, they get paid enough). Which is what Cameron himself is pushing for at the moment! Once your legally committed to something, you simply can not choose to opt-out just because a decision doesn't suite you, without the risk of legal action!

[EXC]

Re: Support Leveson - sign this

Simple. All relevant news companies sign up to it and agree a to set code of conduct and punishments for breach under a legally binding agreement (pretty sure the lawyers and can work that out, they get paid enough). Which is what Cameron himself is pushing for at the moment! Once your legally committed to something, you simply can not choose to opt-out just because a decision doesn't suite you, without the risk of legal action!

No, it's not what Cameron's pushing for at all.

And how would you ensure that ''All relevant news companies sign up to it and agree a to set code of conduct and punishments for breach under a legally binding agreement'' ? Ask them nicely and hope for the best perhaps?

Leveson has already considered that idea and found it to be unacheivable for the above reason, and others.

Read paragraphs 51-56 http://www.official-documents.gov.uk.../0779/0779.pdf

[teaboy2]

Re: Support Leveson - sign this

No, it's not what Cameron's pushing for at all.

And how would you ensure that ''All relevant news companies sign up to it and agree a to set code of conduct and punishments for breach under a legally binding agreement'' ? Ask them nicely and hope for the best perhaps?

Leveson has already considered that idea and found it to be unacheivable for the above reason, and others.

Read paragraphs 51-56 http://www.official-documents.gov.uk.../0779/0779.pdf

Well thats not my job so i won't comment on how they will do it without using legislation. You say its not what cameroon is pushing for, well hes certainly pushing to get them round the table to agree to something, is he not? And its certainly not any new legislation, now is it! No hes wanting them to come up with a new independant regulator with more powers to regulate themselves (The press) and enforce stricter punishment on those that step out of line!

Let me ask you a question EXC, this legislation your supporting, What precisely is it, whats section 1 of the legisation whats section 2 and section 3, what overall effect will it have, what precise protections will it give, what are the benefits and the disadvantages of it, what effect would it have on the layman going about his daily live and expressing himself or inacting his freedoms? You do not know as you have not seen it!

As for what lord black proposed, well who says it wouldn't work? oh thats right lord leveson as it doesn't meet his opiniated critia of what is needed! But no one is suggesting Lord blacks proposal should be exactly as proposed, instead it should be independant people on the regulatary body, along with former editors, as i stated earlier in the thread. Lord Blacks proposal didn't account for that!

[miliitant]

Re: Support Leveson - sign this

now, not going off topic, but dont you think this is all party politics to sieze the moment, cameron on one side, clegg on the other trying to win his party votes on public sentiment. lets face it, at the next election the lib dems will all but wiped out of any parliamentary seats.

i say clegg is nothing except the mouse that roared for once when cameron cut his strings, prob to stop his nose getting any bigger

so we move to make regulation an act to become law

“public consultation”. This could be followed by a Green Paper, a White Paper, a draft bill and, hold on a moment, we are now well past May 2015, the date set for the next election, so the whole process goes on to the back-burner to be re-heated or discarded by the incoming government.

smoke screen and mirrors as usual

[EXC]

Re: Support Leveson - sign this

Let me ask you a question EXC, this legislation your supporting, What precisely is it, whats section 1 of the legisation whats section 2 and section 3, what overall effect will it have, what precise protections will it give, what are the benefits and the disadvantages of it, what effect would it have on the layman going about his daily live and expressing himself or inacting his freedoms? You do not know as you have not seen it!

The legislation I'm supporting is of the type and which has the effect of that proposed by Leveson from paragraph 70 http://www.official-documents.gov.uk.../0779/0779.pdf

The Government have said they'll be publishing a draft bill in 2 weeks.

As to what impact it would have on the layman ''expressing himself or inacting his freedoms'', the answer is naff all as it only applies to the publishers of newspapers and magazines.