Negotiating Line for the Consumer Rights Directive unfair charges ..... RESPONSE

[leclerc]

Re: Negotiating Line for the Consumer Rights Directive unfair charges ..... RESPONSE

And, the Swiss?

I don't think they are part of the EU albeit they do have associate member status, if memory serves me right, which means that they have agreements in place to cover aspects of EU rules ie freedom of movement, goods, etc, etc, but are not compelled into EU legal framework

[EXC]

Re: Negotiating Line for the Consumer Rights Directive unfair charges ..... RESPONSE

EU briefing paper for Consumer Rights Directive. It deals with the Supreme Court judgment from page 87 onwards.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/activi...=en&file=32511

The current timetable for CRD http://www.europarl.europa.eu/docume...ATT86221EN.pdf

[EXC]

Re: Negotiating Line for the Consumer Rights Directive unfair charges ..... RESPONSE

The BIS response to the consultation http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore...nt-charges.pdf

Not good but they still leave the door open:



Government response and Next Steps

9 The Government has carefully considered the information it has received through the Call for Evidence, and has decided not to put forward an amendment to the Consumer Rights Directive at this stage to enable charges outside of the “essential bargain” from the perspective of the consumer, to be assessed for unfairness. It is clear from the evidence provided from business, and consumer, legal and regulatory bodies that the case for tabling an amendment is very finely balanced, and the Government prefers to give itself more time to consider this issue. In particular, the Government will take note of the outcome of the Credit and Personal Insolvency Review (which includes the issue of bank charges) issued on 15 October 2010.

10 As noted in the Call for Evidence, it is likely that only parts of the Consumer Rights Directive will be adopted on a full harmonisation basis. Recent discussions have indicated that the relevant provisions on unfair contract terms will be adopted on a minimum harmonisation basis which would enable Member States to apply their own rules This means that the UK would still be free to regulate this matter internally in domestic law, even if the present text of the Directive remains unchanged. The new Directive (when agreed) is likely to be adopted in 2011, and an opportunity to bring in domestic provisions would arise when the Directive is implemented into UK law some time after that. Since the new Directive is likely, in any event, to contain different wording from the current law, there is likely to be a need to clarify the issue at this point. The UK Government will therefore revisit the issue at this time. Waiting to decide on a possible change to the legislation at a domestic level will allow more time to decide on whether the change is desirable, and more time to assess the potential impact of the change. A full public consultation on the Directive will take place prior to implementation.

11 Should the level of harmonisation of the relevant provisions change during the process of negotiations, the Government will revisit the issue.

[EXC]

Re: Negotiating Line for the Consumer Rights Directive unfair charges ..... RESPONSE

Interesting to see that the Bar Council responded - attached.

Disappointingly only 4 'consumer bodies' responded (5 including us) compared to 15 businesses or business representatives. Not brilliant when the paper said ''It is clear from the evidence provided from business, and consumer, legal and regulatory bodies that the case for tabling an amendment is very finely balanced''

List of respondents:

ABI
Owen Ashcroft
Association of Private Client Investment Managers and Stockbrokers
Barclays
Bar Council of England and Wales
British Bankers Association
British Vehicle Rental and Leasing
Building Societies Association
CBI
Citizens Advice Bureau
Chris Coles
Competition Commission
Consumer Focus
Bob Egerton
Dr Jesse Elvin
Anna Geddes
Institute of Legal Executives
Legal and General
Legal Beagles
Lloyds TSB
Local Government Regulation
Money Saving Expert
Nationwide
OFCOM
OFT
Sharon Quigley
Royal Bank of Scotland
Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors
Santander (Alliance and Leicester)
Virgin Media
Vodafone
Which?

[Amethyst]

Re: Negotiating Line for the Consumer Rights Directive unfair charges ..... RESPONSE

''

In particular, the Government will take note of the outcome of the Credit and Personal Insolvency Review (which includes the issue of bank charges) issued on 15 October 2010
''

I thought that might be the case. it did seem a little of a cross over.

We need to impress even further on peeps how important that one is then if they want a say.

Then I guess we get another input to the CCD

''

A full public consultation on the Directive will take place prior to implementation.
''

I would have thought a lot more consumer bodies would have responded, especially considering the importance of the changes proposed for the bank charge campaign At least Wendy got her response in on time tho

[EXC]

Re: Negotiating Line for the Consumer Rights Directive unfair charges ..... RESPONSE

Agree with all of that.

This bit really ticks me off: ''Many respondents said there would need to be an objective test to establish what a reasonable consumer would see as being the “essential bargain”. It is not for industry or Government to determine what may form the essential bargain.''

So if suppliers are saying that they don't have an obligation to define the purpose of the contract, then who does?

[Amethyst]

Re: Negotiating Line for the Consumer Rights Directive unfair charges ..... RESPONSE

''It is therefore inappropriate for Government regulators to be able to force companies to charge responsible customers for the ills of irresponsible customers.'' Typical industry viewpoint ! not fair for responsible customers to pay for the ills of irresponsible lenders either is it !

[EXC]

Re: Negotiating Line for the Consumer Rights Directive unfair charges ..... RESPONSE

So much for the package of services argument then.

[EXC]

Re: Negotiating Line for the Consumer Rights Directive unfair charges ..... RESPONSE

Had this from Bob - one of the respondents - bless him.


Nick

As always, thanks for keeping me informed on these things.

What a nice phrase from the report: "It is clear from the evidence provided from business, and consumer, legal and regulatory bodies that the case for tabling an amendment is very finely balanced …"

In other words, Barclays, BBA, Lloyds, RBS, Santander thought that they should be able to take whatever they liked out of their customers' accounts; you and I and a few other troublemakers thought that they shouldn't be allowed to do so. So that makes it finely balanced.

Perhaps they should do similar consultations on robberies. The Kray Twins, the Great Train Robbers and the Brinks Matts gold bullion thieves think that they should be able to rob whoever they like; a few people who had been beaten up by them thought that they shouldn't be allowed to continue. That would be finely balanced wouldn't it?

Plus ca change!

Regards
Bob

[EXC]

Re: Negotiating Line for the Consumer Rights Directive unfair charges ..... RESPONSE

The Private Members Bill - Financial Services (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts) Bill - gets it's second reading next week.

Parliament UK: Bills before Parliament


Financial Services (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
Lorely Burt, supported by Simon Hughes, Mr Lee Scott, Richard Burden, Stephen Williams, Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger, Mr George Mudie, Mr Mike Hancock, Heather Wheeler, Meg Munn, Mr Andrew Love and Jack Dromey, presented a Bill to ensure that ancillary pricing terms in personal financial services contracts can be assessed for fairness; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 12 November , and to be printed (Bill 19 ) .

The MP presenting the Bill is Lorely Burt (Libdem) who is a keen advocate of action on bank charges Solihull MP leads campaign against unfair bank charges. (Lorely Burt MP)

[leclerc]

Re: Negotiating Line for the Consumer Rights Directive unfair charges ..... RESPONSE

I hope he doesn't do a Mohamad Sarwar who withdrew his bill on bank charges. When I approached him he said he didn't so I quote Hansard which said he did and he never had the decency(ok he is an MP) to respond back to me..