Credit Services Association concerned about free consumer forums

[Twitter Beagle]

LegalBeagles: Credit Services Association concerned about free consumer forums - http://www.csa-uk.com/media/editor/f...20Websites.pdf

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[Amethyst]

Re: Credit Services Association concerned about free consumer forums

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009...-debt-websites



Debt collectors hit out at advice websites

Trade body for debt collectors holds workshops for its members to look at 'combating' organisations such as Consumer Action Group

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• Rupert Jones
• guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 2 December 2009 09.59 GMT
• Article history

Debt collectors are planning ways to hit back against online consumer forums allowing people to share advice about dealing with debt problems and taking on financial institutions.
The Credit Services Association (CSA), the main trade body for debt collectors, has held workshops for its members to explore ways of "combating" organisations such as the Consumer Action Group (CAG), a forum with almost 250,000 members.
A CSA PowerPoint presentation, seen by the Guardian, claims such sites are guilty of "encouraging" people to evade debts, provide "breeding grounds for misinformation" and "insult" banks and debt collectors.
A section of the presentation entitled "What do they actually do?" said online forums "celebrate 'victories' against creditors, set up tallies of how much has been refunded in bank charges [and] provide standard template letters".
It outlined some of the most common claims made and said it had provided the Ministry of Justice with evidence of bad practice as well as suggesting possible amendments to primary legislation with the consumer affairs minister.
It added that it had "discussed consumer forums and CMCs [claims management companies] with the OFT".
The trade body named five sites: the Consumer Action Group, Blagger.com, Penaltychargesforum.co.uk, Getoutofdebtfree.org and Legalbeagles.info.
But Marc Gander, a co-founder of the CAG, said it was "a real shame" debt collection firms felt they had to set up a mechanism to combat sites such as his.
"They seem to view us as some variation of animal rights activists," he added.
The CAG, set up in 2006, was one of the first online self-help organisations to help people challenge banks over "unfair" charges and loan agreements that could be unenforceable.
Similar high-profile websites include Martin Lewis's "consumer revenge" site MoneySavingExpert.com, which was not named by the CSA.
The consumer revolt over current account penalty charges triggered a huge surge in the number of sites offering to help people take on banks, credit card companies and loan providers.
Some of these were described as "irresponsible" by the debt collectors' body, but Gander said bank charges would never have been made a priority by the OFT without websites such as his.
The OFT launched a high-profile legal battle over the issue, but it ended in defeat last month.
"Consumer websites are here for keeps," Gander said. "They had better learn to live with it. How many people do they really want to be in conflict with?"
A spokesman for the CSA said websites that helped borrowers manage their debts responsibly were to be welcomed, but those setting out simply to help debtors avoid debts were "grossly irresponsible".
"Avoiding debts is not a victimless crime – it impacts everybody in the long run," the spokesman said.
"If a website gave advice on how to shoplift, consumers – and retailers – would be up in arms, so how can it be right for a site to effectively encourage people to make off with money that isn't theirs?"
The spokesman said the CSA had relaunched its website with a consumer help section and engaged with consumer advice bodies to help people manage their debts.

[Luminol]

Re: Credit Services Association concerned about free consumer forums

Im incensed that the blame is put on us, for daring to get together and stand up to DCA's, banks and other financial institutions when they use the most horrendous tactics to scare you half to death.

Dear me!

Lumi x

[Amethyst]

Re: Credit Services Association concerned about free consumer forums

The comments on the story on the guardian site are fantastic reading. http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009...-debt-websites
Some I recognise clearly from CAG, well done guys.

[catinahat]

Re: Credit Services Association concerned about free consumer forums

Orwellian!!! That's the word that springs to mind here... I think I'm probably preaching to the converted when I say what I'm about to say with regard to this... LOL
(quote) "If a website gave advice on how to shoplift, consumers – and retailers – would be up in arms, so how can it be right for a site to effectively encourage people to make off with money that isn't theirs?"

My response to this is: ' so its perfectly ok then that the banks have been doing this to customers for years..?!'

hence my 'Orwellian view' ... all pigs are equal but some are more equal than others...!'

How very dare they have the audacity to come out with such outrageous statements?! Ok, so everyone has the right to be heard, but they can't seriously believe they have the right to be taken seriously???!!!
Scary to think that these people are deemed as 'intelligent' and even put their ridiculous statements in print!!
I think it boils down to one thing and one thing only... FEAR! They are afraid of consumer groups because people are becoming empowered and they are afraid that they're losing their once iron grip of control... which of course, they are. Thanks to groups like LB, Martin Lewis's collective voice speaking up and saying, No more. We want fair play and we'll keep on fighting till we get it. Well they should be blooming scared! (imho) Ok, sorry, i'll put the soap box away ... for now :beagle: CatXXX

PS Beagles-in-paws... ;-))

[catinahat]

Re: Credit Services Association concerned about free consumer forums

I'm absolutely " gobsmacked!" At the sheer audaciousness (is that a word?) of this article written by a 'spokesperson for the CSA' in the Guardian newspaper... I'm sure the majority of right thinking, sensible folk will not only be guffawing and choking on their cornflakes when they read this at breakfast, but guffiving, six and so on...
Anyway, this was my response; which I felt compelled to voice on the guardian's website. (posts/replies etc) Along with the army of other people who seemed to share my sentiments :rofl:Thanks Ame, for posting that link... after I'd finished being 'outraged and indignant', I began to see this for the comedy it is... :-)) Would recommend reading those who enjoy 'humour genre of fiction...;-)'


(Quote from article in The Guardian')

"... Debt collectors hit out at advice websites
Trade body for debt collectors holds workshops for its members to look at 'combating' organisations such as Consumer Action Group...."

My reply:
So, the CSA are spitting the dummy out and preparing 'special workshops' and powerpoint presentations for staff eh? And all because, horror of horrors, people are turning to consumer groups for advice and support on debt/financial issues.
For far too long, debt collection agencies and banks have had it all their own way. Banks have imposed inflated charges and penalties from powerless customers, often for the most 'minor transgression'. (ie. £35 charge for a £3 transaction which took the customer outside of their 'agreed overdraft limit'. Debt collection agents have operated in a manner more befitting an underworld Don than an agent of a supposed 'reputable finance company'. These individuals have used tactics which fall outside of the law, bullying, harrassing, threatening and hounding people at their homes and places of work sometimes, to scare the customer into 'coughing up!' By fair means or foul means, doesn't really matter as long as targets were met and they got the desired result. They call themselves 'Debt collection agents' simply doing their job. In certain parts of the continent and southern Europe, they have a different name and call it a 'shake down'. Same principle though, except the latter do operate within some code of honour dictated by their organisation... and with reference to the banks, well... what can I say? At least Dick Turpin wore a mask! Yet how loudly they do protest. Warning against these consumer groups who offer helpful and constructive advice to consumers- WITHIN the parameters of the law! Such groups as mentions specifically by the CSA, deign to offer advice on legal issues, how to get out of debt by following the letter of the law, promoting a long-term goal of ending the ever decreasing vicious circle of spiralling debt... Tut tut tut, they must be stopped of course. Can't have people knowing their rights, right? Where's the profit in THAT?!