RBS and the 80% interest rate charged

[DandD]

Re: RBS and the 80% interest rate charged

Hi Amethyst

We haven't applied for 'Set Aside' yet. We need to get all the info together first.

The amount of information that we have is incredible so it's just daunting for us.

The bank have made so many errors/mistakes. We could stand in court and list many things and they would just say 'we made a mistke' and then WIN.

We really need a to find a Solicitor who would do this for us or a Public Access Barrister.

Any ideas?

D & D

[DandD]

Re: RBS and the 80% interest rate charged

The lead journalist at the Sunday Times has just called me on my mobile.

He's really ****ed off. He's been trying to get a reply to the the damning allegations that they made about the RBS a couple of weeks ago but they are refusing to reply. 'NO COMMENT'.

This story is going to run and run until the bank give in or go to court. We are making an official complaint to them. We will make allegations that will be so bad that they should take us to Court. I BET they don't! (If only they would).

Duncan & Debbie

[Amethyst]

Re: RBS and the 80% interest rate charged

'Manual Diary Entry'
Income £2400
Outgoing £2214.94
Total Debt £88740.50
Amt available £185.03
No of creditors 11
Is offer pro rata - yes
outwith travel trig £295.98
HP £152.90 ends 12 Months
Applying for AOE.
Sols will advise in due course as to outcome.


What of that is correct true information ?


For info: DandD V RBS - The Consumer Forums

[DandD]

Re: RBS and the 80% interest rate charged

Hi Amethyst.

Absolutely none of this is correct! Literally, not one thing!

D

[Amethyst]

Re: RBS and the 80% interest rate charged

And they said they entered incorrect (someone elses) details on the system in error. Off the back of that they applied for AoE's ?

Surely this is fraud. I understand what you are saying their defence is it is an error, how can that lead to them to Win the case though ? If they admit in court the figures are an error then they should be ordered to cancel the CO and the debt and return you to the original position. I think I have a pretty simplistic view. You have proof that that information is incorrect, that the bank have admitted the information is an error, therefore how on earth can the court uphold their claim against you for 70k odd ?

also on some of the documents posted on the other site some are addressed to Birch and some to Burch. Proper spelling of your name is Birch ? Is there a pattern to docs spelt incorrectly (eg the new accounts etc).

Another thing struck me is that you offered to settle the overdraft account for 8k and they said no but they would accept 8.5k (which seems very picky and purely to make the account look bad) - was that offer passed on to you ever? It appears from the documents it was agreed and was going to be paid in january, then in april theres notes saying the money wasnt received, as if it had been agreed. Is that more creative entries ?

[Tools]

Re: RBS and the 80% interest rate charged

Have you served them with a Section 10 notice under the Data Protection Act 1998

10 Right to prevent processing likely to cause damage or distress

(1) Subject to subsection (2), an individual is entitled at any time by notice in writing to a data controller to require the data controller at the end of such period as is reasonable in the circumstances to cease, or not to begin, processing, or processing for a specified purpose or in a specified manner, any personal data in respect of which he is the data subject, on the ground that, for specified reasons—
(a) the processing of those data or their processing for that purpose or in that manner is causing or is likely to cause substantial damage or substantial distress to him or to another, and
(b) that damage or distress is or would be unwarranted.

Surely this applies?

Also have you made any complaint to the ICO, FSA or OFT?

[Tools]

Re: RBS and the 80% interest rate charged

And surely this is also an offence under the Fraud Act 2006? http://www.opsi.gov.uk/Acts/acts2006...0060035_en.pdf

Will paste a few sections for comment, see if they can be applied to your case

2 Fraud by false representation
(1) A person is in breach of this section if he—
(a) dishonestly makes a false representation, and
(b) intends, by making the representation—
(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or
(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.
(2) A representation is false if—
(a) it is untrue or misleading, and
(b) the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.
(3) “Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a
representation as to the state of mind of—
(a) the person making the representation, or
(b) any other person.
(4) A representation may be express or implied.
(5) For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it
(or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device
designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without
human intervention).
3 Fraud by failing to disclose information
A person is in breach of this section if he—
(a) dishonestly fails to disclose to another person information which he is
under a legal duty to disclose, and
(b) intends, by failing to disclose the information—
(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or
(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.
4 Fraud by abuse of position
(1) A person is in breach of this section if he—
(a) occupies a position in which he is expected to safeguard, or not to act
against, the financial interests of another person,
(b) dishonestly abuses that position, and
(c) intends, by means of the abuse of that position—
(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or
(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.
(2) A person may be regarded as having abused his position even though his
conduct consisted of an omission rather than an act.
5 “Gain” and “loss”
(1) The references to gain and loss in sections 2 to 4 are to be read in accordance
with this section.
(2) “Gain” and “loss”—
(a) extend only to gain or loss in money or other property;
(b) include any such gain or loss whether temporary or permanent;
and “property” means any property whether real or personal (including things
in action and other intangible property).
(3) “Gain” includes a gain by keeping what one has, as well as a gain by getting
what one does not have.
(4) “Loss” includes a loss by not getting what one might get, as well as a loss by
parting with what one has.
7 Making or supplying articles for use in frauds
(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he makes, adapts, supplies or offers to supply
any article—
(a) knowing that it is designed or adapted for use in the course of or in
connection with fraud, or
(b) intending it to be used to commit, or assist in the commission of, fraud.
(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable—
(a) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12
months or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum (or to both);
(b) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding
10 years or to a fine (or to both).
(3) Subsection (2)(a) applies in relation to Northern Ireland as if the reference to 12
months were a reference to 6 months.
8 “Article”
(1) For the purposes of—
(a) sections 6 and 7, and
(b) the provisions listed in subsection (2), so far as they relate to articles for
use in the course of or in connection with fraud,
“article” includes any program or data held in electronic form.
(2) The provisions are—
(a) section 1(7)(b) of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (c. 60),
(b) section 2(8)(b) of the Armed Forces Act 2001 (c. 19), and
(c) Article 3(7)(b) of the Police and Criminal Evidence (Northern Ireland)
Order 1989 (S.I. 1989/1341 (N.I. 12));
(meaning of “prohibited articles” for the purposes of stop and search powers).

Also have a read of The Theft Act 1968 http://www.lawteacher.net/PDF/TA%201968.pdf in particular Section 15 to 20 and Section 24a

[DandD]

Re: RBS and the 80% interest rate charged

Hi All

thanks for the replies.

We will answer them soon, but I just wanted to post one of the final paragraphs of our letter of complaint.......it reads......

'It has been your objective to gain a dishonest advantage by reducing our assets. You have followed an incremental pattern limited only by your greed, opportunity and success. Greed has been your motivation. Concealment has been an essential part of this prolonged deception. You have secretly abused your position of trust with the clear intent to make a gain and to cause us financial loss.

There is only one word that can be used to encompass this conduct and that word is .....fraud.

As a result of this, we demand that, as a minimum, you contact the Courts to have our CCJs removed, you remove the Charging Orders on our Home and you repay the money that we have paid towards these unlawfully created accounts (with interest). You must also take into account the financial damage that you have caused us over the past 10 years, and the incredible personal upset caused by your fraud.'

Can't post the whole letter as the forums a bit too public.

But wht do you think of this snippet?

Thanks

D

[Amethyst]

Re: RBS and the 80% interest rate charged

I assume you have had no reply?

Have reported it as fraud to the police?

[DandD]

Re: RBS and the 80% interest rate charged

Amethyst

Haven't sent it yet. We've only just finished it.

If you want I could PM the whole letter to you.

No. We haven't reported it to the police yet. Although we were going to put in the letter that we will be doing just that. Do you think we should?

Let me know

thanks

D&D

[Amethyst]

Re: RBS and the 80% interest rate charged

Certainly. What assistance they will be I don't know. The intial discussion might be of interest though. Or for a giggle you could report to the natwest fraud squad lol - NatWest - Reporting fraud

Now when you got your original CCJs they were based on admissions ? What were those claims actually for and are those what led to the charging orders?

[DandD]

Re: RBS and the 80% interest rate charged

hi Amethyst

We did sign Admission forms BUT. I remember vividly that we had a call from RBS (Scott Mather) saying that we must sign them so that we could pay back monthly. In hindsight, we know that this was just bullying tactics by the bank. We knew that we did have a debt to pay but we alway questioned the amount, so, we just wrote in our income and expenditure details and signed the forms.

There is a box on the front page that says 'How much of the claim do you admit'. Within this box are 2 check boxes, one for admitting the WHOLE debt and one for admitting a specific amount. Neither of these boxes have been ticked by us. We couldn't, we didn't admit the whole debt and we couldn't admit part of it because they were refusing to show how they got to this amount.

We still have the original documents. I can send them to you.

thanks

Duncan

[Amethyst]

Re: RBS and the 80% interest rate charged

This form? http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/c...s/n9a_0406.pdf

Its okay I know its easy in hindsight. I don't understand why you haven't been back to court to get this overturned yet. You seem to have plenty of evidence, your debt should be the original what wa sit £25k overdraft plus standard interest and charges i would assume...it should not have been converted to a loan of any type without your permission.

It was formally part of an IVA wasn't it - who managed your IVA ?

It failed due to lack of payments into it. When was it set up and when did it fail? Were there other creditors in the IVA too?

Was it the IVA people who offered the £8,000 or your mothers? solicitor?

[DandD]

Re: RBS and the 80% interest rate charged

This form? http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/c...s/n9a_0406.pdf

That's the one. But the box on the front showing an admission of the debt or part of the debt was not ticked.

[Amethyst]

Re: RBS and the 80% interest rate charged

I assume from that no defence was entered in addition to the admission - I think therefore the court will have taken it as admission of the entire claim. Court procedure should have been to come back to you to clarify, but we know court procedure isnt precisely adhered to much of the time.

Have Pm'd you regarding the letter.