How Private Is Private Messaging On An Internet Forum?

[Froggy]

I spend my time on a lot forums like this one and a few US forums but every time there is some hassle because of some minor insignificant event the question does sometimes arise as to who can access Private Messages on an internet forum apart from the individual themselves.

So Pkea and SIte Admin: Am I the only one that has access to Private Messages? I have heard Admin can view Private Message titles, is this true? How Private is Private Messaging on an Internet Forum?

[Paradox]

Re: How Private Is Private Messaging On An Internet Forum?

On an internet forum nothing is private. I can install a hack to allow admin viewing of private messaging in about 10 minutes (thats on PHPbb forum software), if you look on Vbulletin under "Read PM's" then you'll see how easy it is to install.

NOTHING IS PRIVATE ON THE INTERNET

[Froggy]

Re: How Private Is Private Messaging On An Internet Forum?

can you clarify that, are you saying that you can hack into this site in 10 minutes?
Or are you saying that you can install something onto the server that will do the job in 10 minutes depending on the software concerned?

[Paradox]

Re: How Private Is Private Messaging On An Internet Forum?

Whoops, should've made myself clear. I run another forum, on that I can install this "hack" On this forum, I can't do anything, nor would I as hacking is illegal.

There are scripts etc out there that allow for the reading of Private Messages etc.

I don't do hacking

[Froggy]

Re: How Private Is Private Messaging On An Internet Forum?

Thank God. for a minute I thought I was talking to a professional hacker

[Amethyst]

Re: How Private Is Private Messaging On An Internet Forum?

Lol....don't mention hacking for goodness sake !

There is a ''Modification'' which enables Pm's to be read within the forum software - a Modification is like an Addon to the standard software which gives facilities like the quick reply box, the blogs, the sidebars and things like that.

We don't have this installed and as far as I know neither does OTR.

A forum such as VBulletin is run on a database system. The database is stored on the server (where the site is hosted). The only people who have access to this are people who are given specific rights to administer the site. The server is where all the BIG jobs go on - like installing things like flashchat.

The site is made up of lots of different files...for example when you click on a link like Archive, or Memberlist the page it goes to is - memberlist.php is a file on the server which contains coding to allow it to pull the relevant information from the userlist database and enter it into a list. Also contains coding to allow reordering of the list by the user.

Example of coding

$show['subscribed'] = iif ($thread['issubscribed'], true, false);
$show['pagenav'] = iif ($thread['pagenav'] != '', true, false);
$show['guestuser'] = iif (!$thread['postuserid'], true, false);
$show['threadrating'] = iif ($thread['rating'] > 0, true, false);
$show['threadcount'] = iif ($thread['dot_count'], true, false);

($hook = vBulletinHook::fetch_hook('threadbit_process')) ? eval($hook) : false;

Things like passwords are all encrypted on the database into binary codes. The chatroom database is also encrypted into binary codes. Basically characters turn into a list of numbers which you cant undecode. (our chatroom changes text to stroage by calling is a BLOB then a digit)

All posts are stored on the server in real text.

The PMs are also stored in real text. A few days ago we had a go at trying to get these encrypted - just for users peace of mind - it resulted in half of the pm going missing once it was sent ( sent means stored on database) thus is is back to real text.

So the answer is yes PMs could be read on an internet forum (I only know how OUR server works) withou special modifications being installed.

On here only Administrators have access to the server - this being Celestine, Amethyst and Tools. Its all quite complex in there so you need to know what you are doing to do anything. So without insinuating anything, only myself and Tools ever go on to the server side of things and then generally not to the database area - as we are more concerned with file management and coding to keep the site running correctly.

Hope that helps a bit.

We have always agreed with Matt - if you dont want something reading don't put it online - anywhere.

[Froggy]

Re: How Private Is Private Messaging On An Internet Forum?

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showt...123166&page=10

This is vbulletin, is that the software involved? So the four people mentioned above HAVE access to be able, should they be bored and have no life, to be able to read Private Messages?
Is it something that would need to be read and if messages are deleted can you still read them?

[Happyolddog]

Re: How Private Is Private Messaging On An Internet Forum?

From Past experiances I can confirm that PM's are not private. I was shown some of the PM's I had sent to another person on another forum.
So if you want too keep things private forget the internet.

Best wishes,
Hod..Liam...

[Paradox]

Re: How Private Is Private Messaging On An Internet Forum?

You can read them in 2 ways - Through MySQL, which is the backbones of the website, and through the Vbulletin modification.

That said, it's not something very often done, as most (not all) forum owners are quite happy for their users to have private messages.

The only reason I can see this being used for good is if someone is getting abusive PM's etc, but even then the user receiving the PM's can just copy and paste them.

[Froggy]

Re: How Private Is Private Messaging On An Internet Forum?

Could the copy and paste in itself be tampered with, ie words added to it that was not originally there?

[Paradox]

Re: How Private Is Private Messaging On An Internet Forum?

Course it could, same as anything that's copied and pasted.

[Froggy]

Re: How Private Is Private Messaging On An Internet Forum?

So the fact that the ability to read PM's could be used as evidence in a court case SHOULD that evidence support that assertion. I will explain, rather than copy and paste,the admin could be alerted(by the user concerned) and be able to read the PM off the server?

[Amethyst]

Re: How Private Is Private Messaging On An Internet Forum?

Of course

[thephoenix]

Re: How Private Is Private Messaging On An Internet Forum?

I was told once by Trading Standards, that electronic messages that have been carried by a 3rd party, in my case I was discussing messages sent via Ebay, where not submisable as evidence in court.
I'd of though PM's would be the same.......

HOWEVER I have never followed it up nor looked into it in more detail.

[Paradox]

Re: How Private Is Private Messaging On An Internet Forum?

I would question as to why not, they're the same as emails. All emails are handled by a 3rd party, so I can't see the difference.