VTR & RMS Receivable

[bobsa31]

Hi,

We VTR'd our car which was financed by Citroen finance. The car was in mint condition for its age, something the gent who picked it up commented on. In any case I took around 100 pictures and a video of the car the day it was picked up with the inspector in some of the pictures.

We have received a letter today from RMS Receivable stating the car had damage which equalled £180, there are two important aspects to the letter though.

1. the letter seems to be in fact a notice of default served under Section 86E of the consumer credit act, and in fact does state we are in default. My understanding is that the credit agreement is actually terminated at the point you VTR
2. there are a number of items listed as needing repair, including dents and a full machine polish, as I say this car was in near mint condition with pictures to prove it.

I'm really quite angry about it, but want to be absolutely certain before I phone and go at them with both barrels what my rights are. could anybody help?

Thanks

[Amethyst]

Re: VTR & RMS Receivable

I think we'd need to see the credit agreement, if you have it. At what stage did you VT ? Were you completely up to date with payments at that point and did you receive a closing statement etc from Citroen finance ( did you inform Citroen finance you were VT'ing? ) And how much is the default notice for ?

Have they specified where these dents etc are or just listed them ? You could ask them for photographic evidence of the work that needed doing so you can compare with your own records.

[bobsa31]

Re: VTR & RMS Receivable

Hi,

we VTR'd at 60% payment, no arrears no missed payments. the default notice is for the repairs they state the car needs only. They have enclosed one photograph of damage which is a tear in the drivers seat, which we accept, they have specified where they reckon the other damage is, my pictures say otherwise though.

Regards

[Amethyst]

Re: VTR & RMS Receivable

In that case I'd ask them how much the tear in the drivers seat is in the list of faults as you accept that and offer to pay that and offer to send them photographs of the other areas where they claim damage to be.

I don't see how they can send you a notice of default sums at the same time as notifying you about the cost of the repairs (but I don't know enough about VT to know if that is normal procedure) £180 isn't too extreme though and isn't worth getting a default over so it could be worth paying it and then arguing (making clear when you pay that you disagree entirely and will be asking for a refund once your complaint is dealt with)

[bobsa31]

Re: VTR & RMS Receivable

The cost for the tear is £60, I'm more than happy to pay that and to be honest if they had said the £180 was the cost of the tear i'de probably have paid that too. What galls me is the fact they have lied and also used really emotive language in the letter to try and frighten me into paying the £180. I've just spoken to CAB and they seem to think that the notice of default is not legitimate and that I should contact the financial Conduct Authority to make a complaint

[R0b]

Re: VTR & RMS Receivable

From my own reading, I am 95% certain they cannot default you when you have VT'd your car. You've informed them of your right to terminate, they have collected the car thus termination of the Agreement has occurred. They cannot default you under an agreement where it has been terminated - they would effectively have to re-instate the agreement with your permission (which of course you wont).

Any damage over and above the reasonable condition of the car will become payable to the lender providing they can prove it is was more than wear and tear. Any payments for damage to the car could not be deemed a default because it did not form part of the credit when you first took the car out and simply cannot form part of your repayments - it is something merely to compensate the lender in circumstances where the car has not been looked after by the debtor.

you haven't specified the age of the car but could you argue wear and tear on the seat problem? If the car is 10+ years old there's a high possibility that the seat cover is likely to be quite worn out. If that is something you are happy to pay for then get a few quotes of what it would cost and see what it compares with or if not, argue wear and tear.

Before you start screaming down the phone, it is probably best to keep everything in writing so if you do want a good rant and rave, advise them that you will confirm in writing what you have said on the phone.

[bobsa31]

Re: VTR & RMS Receivable

the car is a 2008, low mileage (50k) so I'm not going to get away with wear and tear on the seat, £60 seems a reasonable figure and I'm happy to pay that. the rest they can whistle for.

[R0b]

Re: VTR & RMS Receivable

What is more than wear and tear will be a subjective point and you could have good reason to argue that the rip in the seat is wear and tear and so you could argue a bit further and see what they say afterwards or you can go ahead and pay for it now but make sure to put in writing before you do so - you may also wish to send them a cheque as they may actually try and process the full amount they are alleging if you pay by card over the phone. Here's an example of what you could say:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Voluntary Termination

Agreement Number:
Vehicle Registration:

I am writing to you with reference to the above matter and your letter dated [ ].

Please note that liability in relation to the alleged outstanding balance for excessive damage to the vehicle is denied.

It is noted that you appear to purport that I am in default of sums owed under the agreement to the total of £180. You will be aware that I invoked my statutory right under section 99 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states that a debtor has the right to terminate voluntarily prior to the end of the agreement provided that he has paid one half of the total amount payable. Through your conduct of collecting the vehicle, you have acknowledged that the [Hire Purchase / Conditional Sale Agreement] is terminated and therefore you cannot supply me with a notice of default under the agreement. Any attempt to apply a default notice in respect of my credit report to any of the credit reference agencies will be deemed factually incorrect and will have an impact on any future credit I may request. I therefore reserve the right to take further action including, but not limited to, commencing legal proceedings for defamation, breach of contract, negligence and malicious falsehood.

The vehicle was maintained in a reasonable condition throughout the period of the agreement and therefore such damage charges you are claiming would amount to fair wear and tear; the vehicle does not need to be returned to you in any better condition other than a reasonable one. Photographic evidence was taken prior to the vehicle being transferred to you which clearly shows that the vehicle was in a reasonable condition. The onus is on you to prove that the alleged damage caused was more than reasonable fair wear and tear.

[Notwithstanding the above, I have paid circa 60% of the total amount payable and any alleged damage to the vehicle would be covered by these additional payments.] OR [Notwithstanding the above, I am prepared to pay a reasonable sum of [£XX / £60] for the cost of the ruptured car seat cover in full and final settlement.

Please confirm by return that you agree to the payment above / this matter is now closed.

Yours faithfully,

-----------------------

Amend the brackets above as required to suit what you wish to say.

[bobsa31]

Re: VTR & RMS Receivable

nice letter, I'll get it printed and sent today. is it worthwhile phoning them first to get any clarification, for example, asking for photographic evidence of the damage or for an independent inspection?

[R0b]

Re: VTR & RMS Receivable

If they have not specified what all of the £180 is for then if you want call them to try get some more information but don't engage in a lengthy conversation just say that you will respond in writing.