Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

[Jon0910]

I'm new to this forum and not quite sure how to make a post so please accept my apologies if I have made an incorrect post.

I'm following the thread of Voluntary Termination of a Hire Purchase or Conditional loan under the CCA 1974 and the post dated 12 January 2014 from Goaphil.

I have a similar situation where I have recently exercised my VT rights and handed back my vehicle. However, there was approximately 16,000 excess miles on the vehicle for which the finance company have sent me a demand for payment.
My agreement does contain an annual mileage and excess mileage charge provision but I am unsure whether those provisions are operative in the case of VT. I have read on another forum of one person who successfully challenged the excess mileage charges with his finance company but it seemed as though his finance company simply buckled on the day or he "got luck" since there was no contractual basis stated on which he won his argument, other than the fact that the "Act" cannot be superseded by the finance companies terms and conditions.
I was wondering whether the people on this forum were aware of any precedent or contractual basis for mounting a good argument.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated, many thanks.
Jon

[Guest]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Jon see post above

[Jon0910]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Jon see post above

I'm new to this forum and not quite sure how to make a post so please accept my apologies if I have made an incorrect post.

I'm following the thread of Voluntary Termination of a Hire Purchase or Conditional loan under the CCA 1974 and the post dated 12 January 2014 from Goaphil.

I have a similar situation where I have recently exercised my VT rights and handed back my vehicle. However, there was approximately 16,000 excess miles on the vehicle for which the finance company have sent me a demand for payment.
My agreement does contain an annual mileage and excess mileage charge provision but I am unsure whether those provisions are operative in the case of VT. I have read on another forum of one person who successfully challenged the excess mileage charges with his finance company but it seemed as though his finance company simply buckled on the day or he "got luck" since there was no contractual basis stated on which he won his argument, other than the fact that the "Act" cannot be superseded by the finance companies terms and conditions.
I was wondering whether the people on this forum were aware of any precedent or contractual basis for mounting a good argument.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated, many thanks.
Jon

Just as quick update. I referred the matter to the Financial Service Ombudsman (FSO) and am awaiting their reply, meanwhile the finance company continue to pursue the "debt". They have appointed lawyers who have written giving a formal demand and 14 days to settle. I've written back simply stating its been referred to the FSO. However, in their letter they say "our client will consider you reasonable request to discharge the debt" - what does that mean? are they saying they are open to offers and if so can I take that as a sign of weakness or is that something they legally have to explore? In any event, what would be "reasonable"? 30%, 50% or higher? - should I hold off making any offers and argue it out?

[ncf355]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

In any event, what would be "reasonable"? 30%, 50% or higher? - should I hold off making any offers and argue it out?

Eh?

Why would you make an offer?

You have nothing to pay ! NOTHING!

Re read the details in this thread relating to the actual law around VT - so long as you have paid 50% or more of the total agreement, and the vehicle was in reasonable condition, they CANNOT charge you for excess mileage

Just write back to them quoting the relevant points of law and state no payment will be forthcoming and should they continue to press for payment that is not due you will make a formal complaint to the OFT

[Guest]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Just as quick update. I referred the matter to the Financial Service Ombudsman (FSO) and am awaiting their reply, meanwhile the finance company continue to pursue the "debt". They have appointed lawyers who have written giving a formal demand and 14 days to settle. I've written back simply stating its been referred to the FSO. However, in their letter they say "our client will consider you reasonable request to discharge the debt" - what does that mean? are they saying they are open to offers and if so can I take that as a sign of weakness or is that something they legally have to explore? In any event, what would be "reasonable"? 30%, 50% or higher? - should I hold off making any offers and argue it out?

HI Jon
Can you just remind me what exactly it says in your contract, how many miles you actually did in the vehicle and over what period please.

[ncf355]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

I referred the matter to the Financial Service Ombudsman (FSO)

Just noticed this bit

It's the FOS by the way (Financial Ombudsman Service) not FSO!



All you need do is make them aware in writing that the complaint is with the FOS

Have you checked your credit file for any bad markers they may have placed?

[Jon0910]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Jon see post above

Just noticed this bit

It's the FOS by the way (Financial Ombudsman Service) not FSO!



All you need do is make them aware in writing that the complaint is with the FOS

Have you checked your credit file for any bad markers they may have placed?

Thanks for that, the letter is in the post, with no offer made!

[Jon0910]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

HI Jon
Can you just remind me what exactly it says in your contract, how many miles you actually did in the vehicle and over what period please.

Hi Andy, I had a regulated PCP agreement that contained an excess mileage clause in excess of 6,000 miles per year (aggregated). I VT'd after paying just over the 50% mark and was about 2 years and 8 months in to the 4 year term. I returned the car in excellent condition and with just over 30,000 miles on the clock, which was approximately 14,000 miles excess, for which they claim.
They argue that the excess mileage term is still enforceable, I have argued that it is not (in accordance with the advice given in this thread).
Thanks,
Jon

[Jon0910]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Thanks for that, the letter is in the post, with no offer made!

Also, just noticed your comment re: credit file and bad markers - I'm not aware they have done anything but will check.

[Guest]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Andy, I had a regulated PCP agreement that contained an excess mileage clause in excess of 6,000 miles per year (aggregated). I VT'd after paying just over the 50% mark and was about 2 years and 8 months in to the 4 year term. I returned the car in excellent condition and with just over 30,000 miles on the clock, which was approximately 14,000 miles excess, for which they claim.
They argue that the excess mileage term is still enforceable, I have argued that it is not (in accordance with the advice given in this thread).
Thanks,
Jon

The average millage has always been about 12-14k, there are many authorities for this, the BVRLA the AA etc. Given that your allowable millage should be about 33k.
Since the act itself only says "reasonable care", any contractual stipulation which seeks to override this would be "contracting out" of the legislation and not allowed under section 173 of the CCA.

Having said all that, at the end of the day it is up to the man in the chair, where as I am sure of the law, courts are funny things and what should happen is not always what happens.

Much depends on if the person understands what is written above and is able to communicate the requirements to the court should it become needed.

Where as I am aware of cases where creditors have lost on this issue, I am also aware of cases where a judge who is not aware of the CCA, the case has not been adequately explained and the debtor lost.

If the court is not made aware of the requirement of the act, he may just look at the contract and say that the parties are required to abide by it.

So it is important that the argument is fully understood.

[Jon0910]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

The average millage has always been about 12-14k, there are many authorities for this, the BVRLA the AA etc. Given that your allowable millage should be about 33k.
Since the act itself only says "reasonable care", any contractual stipulation which seeks to override this would be "contracting out" of the legislation and not allowed under section 173 of the CCA.

Having said all that, at the end of the day it is up to the man in the chair, where as I am sure of the law, courts are funny things and what should happen is not always what happens.

Much depends on if the person understands what is written above and is able to communicate the requirements to the court should it become needed.

Where as I am aware of cases where creditors have lost on this issue, I am also aware of cases where a judge who is not aware of the CCA, the case has not been adequately explained and the debtor lost.

If the court is not made aware of the requirement of the act, he may just look at the contract and say that the parties are required to abide by it.

So it is important that the argument is fully understood.

Thanks Andy, your opinion is very much appreciated. When you say that you are aware of cases where creditors have lost on this issue were those cases tried in court? I have searched the internet far and wide to see if there is any case law on this matter but have found nothing so far. If there is case law then that may help to get the claimant off my back!
Thanks
Jon

[Guest]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Thanks Andy, your opinion is very much appreciated. When you say that you are aware of cases where creditors have lost on this issue were those cases tried in court? I have searched the internet far and wide to see if there is any case law on this matter but have found nothing so far. If there is case law then that may help to get the claimant off my back!
Thanks
Jon

I wold recommend sticking to your guns and just repeating the arguments given here.

[Jon0910]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

UPDATE: The Financial Ombudsman Service has now given their opinion to this matter and have stated that they cannot support the basis of my claim. They refer to the fact that I have signed an agreement (regulated) that contains an excess mileage provision. This is despite me pointing out that any term which attempts to contract out of the Act would be void. They do give me an option to refer my complaint to the "Ombudsman", the opinion I have been given is from an "Adjudicator" in the FOS, but I think I'm likely to get the same response!

[Guest]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

UPDATE: The Financial Ombudsman Service has now given their opinion to this matter and have stated that they cannot support the basis of my claim. They refer to the fact that I have signed an agreement (regulated) that contains an excess mileage provision. This is despite me pointing out that any term which attempts to contract out of the Act would be void. They do give me an option to refer my complaint to the "Ombudsman", the opinion I have been given is from an "Adjudicator" in the FOS, but I think I'm likely to get the same response!

Is it possible to see the actual correspondence and the individual adjudicators details, you can redact your details of course.

[Guest]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

It is an interesting and worrying development , I wonder if they are saying that a PCP agreement is not a conditional sale or HP agreement, or that it is in some way exempt form the CCA I wold like to get them to justify this decision.

In absence of any binding legal authority(and I am not aware of any) this decision may be a problem to justify (IMO)