Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Sorry ******, thought your name was Tia.. now realising you meant thanks in advance :tsk:

Well if you think the car was returned in a reasonable condition then the onus is on RMS to prove otherwise. It is unlikely as the car is probably sold at auction by now and without proper evidence I can't see how they can reclaim the monies.

If you haven't heard anything back it might be a good idea just to follow up your previous email before the end of the 35 day period and mention you have not heard from them.

I'm not aware of anyone on here being taken to court but that is still a possibility so you have to be aware of that at the back of your mind, but again proof is necessary and no proof = no claim.

Also keep an eye on your credit file in case they place a default marker on your file. If they do then you can take action against them for breach of data and seek damages.

[JMET91]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION],

I didn't - I planned to, but the guy collecting the car seemed so confident in it's good condition that I didn't bother - naive I know!

No, but I half expected that to come with their reply. I'll sort the picture of the invoice later today.

There was a few small niggles, but nothing that I would consider above reasonable. ~£1000 bill was certainly a massive shock!! Do you think I need to chase them for a reply (I asked them to confirm agreement "by return" after all)?

******

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Tia,

Did you take photographs of the car before you handed it over as evidence of the condition?

Has RMS provided you with any photographic evidence of the damage they are alleging?

I can't remember what their invoices look like but if I recall its usuall a one or to page sheet with a diagram showing the alleged damage. If you could post up the letter / invoice of damage it would be helpful - with all personal info removed. You can do this by taking a legible photograph and upload it to an image site such as www.postimage.org and copy the thumbnail forum link or if you are struggling you can email it to Kati@legalbeagles.info

What are your opinion on the charges? Do you think the car was returned in a reasonable condition? If so, then you should not have much to worry about.

[JMET91]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi @R0b,

Hoping you can help me out as you have the 100s before me!

I recently VT'd my Peugeot 208. I coughed up the remaining ~£650 to get to the 50% mark and they collected the car. The guy collecting it said it looked in great condition etc etc. Didn't tell me of any damage he had noted down during the inspection or anything.

Since received a letter from RMS receivables stating that I owe them near £1000. This is for multiple scratches/dents/chips, including a £142 bonnet refinishing. I used your suggested letter templates and emailed them the one that denies any damage above reasonable wear and tear - "The onus is upon you..." etc. The actual total of the breakdown is more than £1100, which leads me to assume that the last payment I made to peugeot (car was collected a couple of days before scheduled payment, and they took this regardless) has been deducted form the total bill.

I had a phonecall and subsequent voicemail (after recognising the number and ignoring it) that stated who it was (RMS), that they were calling about my 'correspondence' and their telephone number - no actual request for me to return their call. I didn't ring back but instead emailed again stating that I would prefer all communication to be either via email or letter, as I had seen you suggest to another user. I have not heard form them since, after sending the second email on Jul 27th. Are they just biding their time/eating into the 35 days they state on their letter? Or have I successfully got them off my back? Not sure what they're doing and getting slightly nervous now!

TIA,

******

[danbus180]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

hi got a car on hp on a 36 months term aug 2016 will be my 18th month can I vt my car am I in my rights to give the car back and walk away from it please help me out on this matter


from dan willis

[kenemac]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi all,

Great thread with lots of great info!

So I'm also thinking of VT my car. It's only two years old so in very good condition but it does have some scrapes on the alloy wheels. Would that be accepted as 'reasonable' or would I expect to see a bill for repair?

Regards and thanks in advance,

Col

they will charge you £55 for each scuffed wheel

[Alpinesun]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi all,

Great thread with lots of great info!

So I'm also thinking of VT my car. It's only two years old so in very good condition but it does have some scrapes on the alloy wheels. Would that be accepted as 'reasonable' or would I expect to see a bill for repair?

Regards and thanks in advance,

Col

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi @MarkP80,

I think I might have found the answer and it seems to stem from (as amended on a number of occasions) The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 2010, Schedule 1 paragraph 12. Link is below for your reference (page 9) and it would seem that this now includes the advance payment. As these regulations have been amended over time it might be that this provision is a new addition since 2010, perhaps that could be why calculations might differ (or again maybe I got lucky with the same company).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...0101014_en.pdf

So it would seem that the calculation of your agreement appears to be correct according to those regulations which in turn affects the amount you have to pay in terms of monthly instalments.

[MarkP80]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Thanks for the reply Rob, and for humouring me with this one

Just for your info I've attached my own agreement

I've been trying to get this clear in my head, and I thought the purpose of the legislation is to say if you've paid more than half the price of the goods, then you can hand them back (correct me if I'm wrong there). So say a sofa in a shop costs £100 and I buy it on HP, then I can hand it back if I have paid a total of £50 (it's interest free today!) Wouldn't it be correct to say that any deposit I paid goes towards that £50 total, the actual £100 cost being the important number?

If I paid £40 deposit and financed the £60, but then the deposit wasn't included, I would have to make payments totalling £30 to VT. I would then have paid a total of £70 on a £100 sofa before I could VT, and that doesn't seem correct, does it?
If the deposit is included, then I would only pay an additional £10 to reach 50% of the total purchase cost.

It's clear that whether the deposit is included or not can have a significant impact on the calculation of whether the 50% point has been reached. In the example in our posts above it's the difference in monthly payments totalling either £3,750 or £3,250. It's a lot bigger difference on my personal agreement!

Is this a matter for individual agreements, or is it a point of law?

Cheers,
MarkP

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Its a good point to make, I have been basing the calculations on previous HP agreements I've entered into previous in which they have deducted the deposit from the cash price but not included it within the TAP. To find out why this differs in the VWFS and yours I would need to look into it.. there's a lot of consumer legislation so will have to seek out the right one and confirm whether or not the way your calculation has been made is correct and I perhaps got lucky or its not correct.

[MarkP80]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Mark,

You are right on the wording (i'll amend it), it ought to be stated as cash price not credit amount, although the deposit is deducted from the cash price resulting in the amount of credit for the agreement plus the total charges such as interest etc. So ultimately the example still has the same outcome.

Cash price = 7,000
less deposit = 1,000
total credit = 6,000
Total charge for credit inc. interest = 1,500
TAP = 7,500

VT point = 3,750

Hi Rob, thanks for the quick reply!

That's an interesting point you make regarding the deposit, as it seems at odds with the figures as shown on my HP agreement.
My agreement calculates a Total Amount Payable. which is the Cash Price Of The Goods plus Charge for Credit.
It gives the termination figure as half the Total Amount Payable
The Total Amount Payable includes the deposit, the credit charges plus the monthly payments, ie the deposit is included in the TAP.
In other words, that would mean in your example above, the TAP would be £8,500

This also seems to be the way the figures are calculated in the VW finance agreement in this other thread -
http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...f-HP-agreement, where the deposit is also included in the TAP calc.

So I'm still a little confused. My agreement (plus the other in the link above) seems to be saying the VT figure is 50% of the cash price of the goods (plus credit fees), whereas I think you're saying the VT 50% figure should be 50% of the amount borrowed (plus credit fees).

What do you think?

Cheers,
Mark

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Mark,

You are right on the wording (i'll amend it), it ought to be stated as cash price not credit amount, although the deposit is deducted from the cash price resulting in the amount of credit for the agreement plus the total charges such as interest etc. So ultimately the example still has the same outcome although your interpretation of the example is correct if the credit amount is 7,000 after deposit paid.

Cash price = 7,000
less deposit = 1,000
total credit = 6,000
Total charge for credit inc. interest = 1,500
TAP = 7,500

VT point = 3,750

[MarkP80]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Can I please ask a question regarding calculation of the 50%? I read the following on another thread, and I'm not sure it's correct -

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ment-*UPDATED*

2. Calculating the amount before you can voluntarily terminate your agreement
Your liability is restricted to 50% of the total amount payable and this includes not only the credit of the lender but also the interest. Your pre-contract information sheet should identify how much the you are required to have paid before your rights can be invoked. A further example is below.

Credit amount: £7,000
Interest: £1,500
Less deposit: £1,000
Total amount payable: £7,500
Amount before you can VT (50%): £3,750.

My understanding is that the 50% relates to the total amount payable, ie cash price of the goods under the agreement (£7,000 in this case), not the amount borrowed (£6,000 in this example).
So in this case, that would be -
Credit amount - £7,000
plus interest £1,500
So total amount payable = £8,500

50% for VT is then £4,250
£1,000 has already been paid in the form of an initial deposit, so the remaining sum to take this up to 50% is
= £3,250, not £3,750

Any comments on this?

Many thanks,
MarkP

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Kellster,

sounds fine by me.

[Kellster]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Best off putting it in writing, so you have evidence of them being notified. wouldn't bother sending it recorded delivery first or second class is fine and ask for certificate of postage for the letter as proof. Keep a copy of that stored away in case you need it.

If you look around the other threads here -> http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...nce-and-Issues

there's a few examples of letters about collection of the car and threatening to terminate the tax and notify the lender, use that as a starting point.

Hi R0b,

just wondered if this response sounded ok? Im a bit nervous sending a letter with legal jargon in it and sounding a bit silly, or quoting incorrect things.

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Voluntary Termination

Agreement Number: ****
Vehicle Registration: ****

I am writing further to your letter dated 20 July 2016.
You will be aware that the Consumer Credit Act limits my liability to half of the total amount payable under the agreement but excludes any sum payable as a penalty, compensation or damages for a breach of the terms of the agreement. Such terms imposed are inconsistent with my rights under the Act and are therefore deemed void and unenforceable.

I have receipts of letters that I sent to you, firstly 31/05/2016 to advise that I wished to terminate my agreement with immediate effect. Then following your letter dated 3/06/2016 I wrote to you (13/06/2016) to advise that I am under no obligation to pay any fees for the collection of the vehicle. The Consumer Credit Act 1974 explicitly states that, my liability under the agreement is limited to half the total amount payable and any terms under the agreement which imposes additional liability directly or indirectly is strictly prohibited by the Act. As such, I shall not be paying any collection fees.

May I remind you that I wrote to you on 25/05/2016 confirming termination of the vehicle, allowing 14 days for you to collect the vehicle. This period has since expired and I shall therefore cancel the remaining tax and insurance and return the V5C document to the DVLA informing them that you are now the registered keeper of the vehicle, and any subsequent liability shall rest with you.

I would therefore urge you to arrange collection of the vehicle at the earliest opportunity to avoid any issues with the vehicle. Alternatively, I am happy to deliver the vehicle to a specific location provided that you confirm in writing to agree to pay all reasonable fees in doing so.

Yours faithfully,