Garage Charging far More than their Estimate

[Bill-K]

Not my area this at all, but daughter called me today. Easier for me to post her email to me. She wants to know what they should say and do when they go in tomorrow to dispute the bill. I imagine the garage will not release the car to them until it is settled. They will be happy to pay the amount agreed, but are disputing the excess - which was apparently for work done without their consent.

It's a Vauxhall Corsa, and was being repaired by Belmot Vauxhall - the local dealership.

Dad, here is what Michael has told me; this is what Geoff agreed with Michael.

After the Service Check Geoff explained the car needed over a grands (£1000+) worth of work done to it but if Michael was on a budget he would be best to just get the major work needed done first.
All of the jobs needing done to the car was on the service invoice but only the 3 "major" jobs where highlighted.
1. "O/S OUTER CV BOOT SPLIT
2. ALL EXHAUST RUBBERS PERISHED AND SPLIT
3. AUX BELT TENSIONER NOISY

Geoff then went on to explain that ALL Michael was going to be paying for was the jobs highlighted on the invoice and those prices included labour.
Geoff carried on to explain that the "AUX BELT" itself may need replacing but if so that would only be an extra £10.00 - £20.00.

Geoff reassured Michael that if there was any difficulties he would phone personally and explain any outstanding issues.
Michael received a voice-mail, which explained that the procedure in which to fit the part took longer than expected and he was to be charged for the labour.
Michael visited the Garage after work to have the issues raised in the voice mail explained face to face.

While Michael waited for Geoff in the show room he was spotted by the Mechanic (Stuart XXXXX) who had been working on the car, and shown him through to the car itself.
Stuart then went on to show Michael what he had done and pointed out the part he had replaced and explained that the cars bodywork underneath was very rusty and this was what caused the delay. - At this point in time Michael was aware that the cars bumper was still off.
Stuart carried on to say that this was his very first time to fit this particular part and had never done one before.

My red emphases.

I guess this will be a TSO job in the end, but they need their car back, while it is being sorted. Maybe a word with the dealership's CEO ?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be most appreciated.

[labman]

Re: Garage Charging far More than their Estimate

How many hours labour were they charged Bill? Those are all jobs I would happily do myself. Personally I would not call exhaust rubbers as essential and major.

The CV boot is a messy job due to it holding the grease which greases the CV joint. In a catastrophic failure the wheel could fall off, so this is definitely essential, but a job I (as an ex teacher, not a mechanic) would allow probably a couple of hours for.

The Auxiliary belt drives the alternator, power steering (if any), air con (if any) and fan. It's often called a serpentine belt now as they tend to be long and look like a snake. Was the car squealing when they started off from being stopped? Again, this really should not be a massively time consuming job unless the mechanic had no idea which way to route the new belt and faffed about running up time before asking someone more experienced who knew. It is a classic mistake to make when doing them - not making a diagram of how they're routed.

However if it was the underbody rust which caused the delay, the only job this would affect is the exhaust rubbers. These are a simple job and should not take long. I assume there would have been a nasty knocking noise coming from under the car which sounded serious, but clearly wasn't.

I used to buy and sell Corsas as a little side line. I once picked up one with a perished rear exhaust rubber for just £50, even though I told the bloke there was nothing wrong with it. Sold it three days later for £750!

I really cannot understand why the rust would cause such a problem. Can they give a more detailed explanation as to why they caused such a delay?

As you say, unfortunately as the garage have the car and they need it, it's probably a case of paying the bill and arguing it afterwards. However, nothing there is hard to do and I do wonder if they're telling the truth about the rusty underbody being the problem rather than the serpentine belt. I'd probe the EXACT reason for the delay - OK the underneath is really rusty, so in what way does this delay things?

Don't know whether this ramble helps at all!

[Bill-K]

Re: Garage Charging far More than their Estimate

Thanks hugely for that, mate. An opinion of someone who has specific experience of Corsas is really valuable in arguing the points with them - very much appreciated. I'm hoping they'll be able to send me some more detail shortly.

They are also worried that - if they partially or fully pay the bill - with the intention of disputing it afterward, what can they do to safeguard themselves from implied acceptance of the price by doing this ?

[Bill-K]

Re: Garage Charging far More than their Estimate

A further question being raised on this is - what right do they have to keep the car, when the original job and price are not being disputed - and can be paid for ?

There's never a Bluebottle about when you want one, is there ? !!!

[labman]

Re: Garage Charging far More than their Estimate

The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 aims to protect consumers against bad workmanship or the poor provision of services. It covers contracts for work and materials, as well as contracts for pure services, and remember, this still applies even in everyday situations – such as going to the hairdressers or the dry cleaners – where you have no physical contract at all. Just as with Sale of Goods, Supply of Goods and Services legislation contains statutory rights, which don’t have to be specifically mentioned in any contract, but cannot be excluded. These are:

• That the supplier will carry out the service with reasonable care and skill
• That the work will be carried out in reasonable time (unless timeframe has been specifically agreed)
• That the work will be carried out at reasonable cost (unless cost has been specifically agreed)

Generally speaking an estimate does not amount to an offer and is not legally binding, although if the final price is significantly higher than the estimate you can claim a breach of the statutory ‘reasonable cost’ term. You should be clear about getting a quote rather than en estimate, as this will then become the final price as agreed as per contract.



Taken from Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 | Consumer Information


This should be specifically interesting to your post above:


Problems with the cost of garage repairs or service

[labman]

Re: Garage Charging far More than their Estimate

Also Bill, sorry, dopey here! You need to find out why the hell the bumper was off. None of those jobs need the bumper taking off. It is possible the exhaust rubbers would have lifted the exhaust, but any mechanic more than 2 minutes out of school would sort that.

The bumper should not have been off!

[Bill-K]

Re: Garage Charging far More than their Estimate

Thanks Labman - that last thought may be useful, as we have a mechanic who has already confessed to not having experience in the job at hand !! Thanks for the links and other stuff, too - there's loads of it out there, of course, isn't there ?

I think we've accepted that the garage has a right of 'lien' of the vehicle, so will probably not release it until full payment. They're going to go in tomorrow, and play the innocent, ignorant victims, and quietly ask as many questions as possible, whilst recording it on the mobile. Next move will be to try and pay in full, but do so under protest, so they can get the car back.

After that, I think we can probably write to the dealership CEO and see if it gets anywhere, but be ready to go to TSO & possibly court.

Cheers mate !!!

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Garage Charging far More than their Estimate

Funnily enough Labman, I just read this to my car engine mad hubby who said the exact same thing... Why was the bumper off?

he says the bumper is nothing to do with CV joints or any of that. (i thought CV was what you gave someone when you applied at tescos but seems im wrong!)

To his mind (he is NOT a proffesional mechanic, just an enthusiast) they are making work for themselves!

[teaboy2]

Re: Garage Charging far More than their Estimate

Also Bill, sorry, dopey here! You need to find out why the hell the bumper was off. None of those jobs need the bumper taking off. It is possible the exhaust rubbers would have lifted the exhaust, but any mechanic more than 2 minutes out of school would sort that.

The bumper should not have been off!

Agreed none of those jobs required the removal of the bumber, ex rubbers take 5 minutes to fit (all of them if its on a ramp), Cv boot between 30mins - 1hr max even if oxycetaline is needed to loosen a rusty bolt. Aux belt will thats 30 mins minimum and should not take more than 1 hr and certainly does not require the removal off the bumper for that or the CV boot.

I worked in the trade for motosave (now wilco motosave) 10 years ago, i was a assistant manager and regurarly did those jobs myself when busy in the garage - Though they were always checked by the mechanics too. Plus we never charged labour we had a fixed price for over the counter and fixed price for fitting.

[Bill-K]

Re: Garage Charging far More than their Estimate

This is really encouraging, guys - thanks !!! :billk:

[Bill-K]

Re: Garage Charging far More than their Estimate

Considerin' some of the BS I post, you guys have really been great. Thanks also to BlueBottle for his advice - and to an old mate Vampiress ( some of you may remember her from the CAG days )

If owt else crops up, then please post up, but daughter is well pleased with the pile of info and advice here. Got me a few Brownie points, I can tell you (like rocking-horse manure, these days, eh Cel ? )

Credit to ya, guys - here's Hev's reply:

" PHWOOAARR! Thats a lot of info! thanks dad you and your team have done you proud! my fave was lisa with the option of getting thugs! i just pictured poor wee geoff's face! haha! I've forwarded all the emails to mike so he can have a proper read etc through his iphone. i also have printed off the promise you brilliantly found!

Can you please tell your forum family thank you very much for their time and opinions! - its soo very much appreciated!

i think mike has an idea of what he is going to do and say! Fingers X'd!!

love you xxxxxx "

[Bill-K]

Re: Garage Charging far More than their Estimate

Daughter Hev just phoned me to say that Michael went in to Belmont and very politely confronted Geoff with the welter of opinion, and the wall of facts that you guys chucked our way.

They ended up agreeing that Michael pays just £40 more than was estimated - and Geoff apologised. They now have the car back and all is settled - and neither the TSO nor the CEO know anything about this.

Nice, quick, clean result. It pays to bark up the correct tree, dunnit ?

So - she asked me to re-iterate her thanks, guys.

....although I'd STILL love to know why the bumper was off.......!!!

[CleverClogs]

Re: Garage Charging far More than their Estimate

....although I'd STILL love to know why the bumper was off.......!!!

So would I.

It would only make sense (?) if the car had a rear engine, the mechanic only had a little willy and he wanted to have sex with the car. :tinysmile_aha_t:

[labman]

Re: Garage Charging far More than their Estimate

Are you able to reveal what Bluebottle's advice was for other members, as I can't see it here? may be helpful in the future.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Garage Charging far More than their Estimate

yay bill!!