Voluntary Termination

[Guest]

Re: Voluntary Termination

HI
There is nothing in statute about the amout of notice, although i think a reasonble term would be 14days, It may be that there is something in your agreement so it may be worth checking.

The legislation says that the car must be in a reasonable condition given the general wear and tear that would be expected through normal use.
i wouldnt worry about an intermittant fault.
I would take this to mean that everything should be in working order.
Keep in mind that whatever the condition the vehicle is in, it cannot halt the termination process.

peter

[labman]

Re: Voluntary Termination

It cannot halt the termination process, but it can affect the amount payable because they can charge for fair wear and tear. Thihs is where photographic evidence counts. I would doubt they'd check the radio, but an abs light or engine management light I would expect them to investigate.

I would not dream of suggesting that if these are on all the time you take the bulbs out! :tinysmile_aha_t:

[DJMEE]

Re: Voluntary Termination

ha ha........ i don't know what you mean!!!

all dually noted!! thanks guys

Labman - when you say they can charge for fair ware and tear......does this include stone chips and door opening scuffs etc??

[Guest]

Re: Voluntary Termination

HI
Sure Labman wont mind me butting in.
The act says that the debtor should have taken "reasonable care."
I think that a fes stone chips or the occaisional scuff mark on a car that has been used for a number of years would be reasonable.


Peter

[Guest]

Re: Voluntary Termination

i will be most certainly be taking pictures, thanks for the tip!!

so technically, a months notice is not required if payments exceed £1500 in a year??

it would seem i am going have to bite the bullet and pay mays payment :tinysmile_cry_t:

in your experience people, how long does it take for the HP company to arrange collection of the car??
and how thourgh do they inspect it for faults/damage??

Usualy they will arrange for an inspection on delivery of collection, as they did with me they will ask you to sign a condition report, you are under no legal obligation to sign anything, and despite what they may say not agreeing with there opinion does not invalidate the termination.

One more thing about taking pictures. It may be a bit anal of me but i made sure that i had a front page of a national paper included in the background of the shots i made, just in case they said that it was an old picture.

Peter

[labman]

Re: Voluntary Termination

The thing is they will try to charge for what they think they can get away with. When I did a VT, they tried charging for chips that I knew were there when I bought it.

Companies will probably vary, and you've just got to be prepared to fight your corner that things were reasonable. Use your common sense - if it's a stone chip over which you had no control, then it's fair wear and tear. If it's a small mark - fair wear and tear. If you've caught the bumper on something and scraped it, you'd probably expect to be charged, even though it's very easily done.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Usualy they will arrange for an inspection on delivery of collection, as they did with me they will ask you to sign a condition report, you are under no legal obligation to sign anything, and despite what they may say not agreeing with there opinion does not invalidate the termination.

One more thing about taking pictures. It may be a bit anal of me but i made sure that i had a front page of a national paper included in the background of the shots i made, just in case they said that it was an old picture.

Peter

Anal or not, it is incredibly sensible advice and would never have occurred to me in a million years. Also, it is VERY important to write clearly about anything you disagree with. YOU are doing the termination, not them. THEY are trying to minimise their losses.

[charitynjw]

Re: Voluntary Termination

I would not dream of suggesting that if these are on all the time you take the bulbs out! :tinysmile_aha_t:

Lol!!

I seem to recall a post from someone (^^^) in the dim distant - something like 'devious Charity'!!

Backatcha!!, pmsl

[labman]

Re: Voluntary Termination

I don't know what you mean!

[DJMEE]

Re: Voluntary Termination

chaps

does the termination come into effect at the moment the car is inspected and signed for or at the point i inform them i wish to terminate??

i am loathed to make the payment on the 1st May - but at the same time cetainly don't want to miss any payments!

[labman]

Re: Voluntary Termination

Debtor's Termination
Under section 99 of the 1974 Act a debtor under a hire purchase or conditional sale agreement can, at any time before the agreement has ended, give written notice to the creditor to end the agreement. Once the agreement has ended, you have to return to the motor vehicle in a reasonable condition and, if you have paid less than a half of the total amount payable, you must pay the creditor the difference between one half of the agreement and what you have paid. If you have paid more than one half, you only have to return the motor vehicle and pay the arrears at the date of your letter.




Section 100
(5)Where the debtor, on the termination of the agreement, wrongfully retains possession of goods to which the agreement relates, then, in any action brought by the creditor to recover possession of the goods from the debtor, the court, unless it is satisfied that having regard to the circumstances it would not be just to do so, shall order the goods to be delivered to the creditor without giving the debtor an option to pay the value of the goods.


OK, so given the above, the first quotation (not from the CCA, but relating to a Section 99 termination) suggests the termination takes place from the date of the letter. Section 100 is quoted directly from the act and suggests that if you have the vehicle after termination, you are, "wrongfully retaining possession."


I would err on the side of caution and say it terminates when everything is handed back, but there is no simple answer as on reading the CCA, it doesn't actually state exactly when it terminates.



Peter or Charity (or someone else!) may know case law which sets a precedent which will give you your exact answer.

[Guest]

Re: Voluntary Termination

Hi

Section 101 talks about notice given to creditors, it only applies to agreements where the debtor pays less than 1500 per year though . So i would suggest the termination starts when reasonable notice is gtiven 14 days is usually the period.

It has to be remembered that it is the financial agrement that is teminated, in my opinion the posession of the car has little relevance, after all the car was always the creditors property in law in any case.

I woujld not pay any hire for the car after it had gone back but niether would i pay anything on goods because they had not been collected.

THis is a debtors termination of contract, it is unilatteral the creditor has nothing to do with it other than he has goods that he needs to collect

Peter

[DJMEE]

Re: Voluntary Termination

a bit of feedback (and a couple more questions!!)

as advised, I spoke to BMW Finance to tell them my intention to VT. To be fair to them, the phone operator was very decent – as you guys suggested, he did ask if I had thought about selling the car instead but fully accepted my answer of “no” and pursued no further.

He went through a number of questions, when is the MOT due, private number plate, V5 etc……….. he did some tapping on the computer and stated that if they had all the paperwork back signed with the MOT certificate and V5 before 30TH April I would owe £0 – this was confirmed in there subsequent paperwork. They would then organise to send someone out to collect the vehicle.

All very amicable and a surprisingly stress free telephone conversation – thank you BMW finance (for now!!)

So as it stands, I am currently waiting for the return of my V5 from the DVLA as I had a private number plate. As it didn’t arrive yesterday, I will now not get the paperwork in before the COP on 30th – so I will have to pay another instalment on the 1st May – hey ho!!

In receiving their paperwork, they added some literature with guidance of their expectations in relation to the condition of the vehicle on collection. Stone chips, small dents, all fair wear and tear etc. accepted, which, looking round the car all boxes seemed to be ticked ok (but I will take pictures with a tabloid newspaper in the back ground!!) except 1………. the very last point was the alloy wheels – which went something on the lines of “we accept scuffs which are no longer than 25mm. no damage as a result of curbing the vehicle is accepted”

The issue I have is that the alloys that are on the car are badly scuffed at the very edge of each alloy, likely to have been caused by curbing – but in all honesty I bought the car with probably 95% of the damage already present. The car is 9 years old and has had 6 different owners in that time – can they really hold me accountable for this damage, especially when the bulk if not all the damage to the wheels was present when they agreed to provide finance for the vehicle?? Seems unfair.

The other 2 things I would like to pick your brains about:

The MOT – having read Peters thread earlier, I learned not to tell them that the MOT now has less than a month left (this is coincidental of the VT). The terms they have sent out state that the MOT must be valid – it is currently – but when they receive the paperwork etc. there could be only a week or days left!!! Can the pull me for this??

And finally – they have requested “at least a quarter of a tank of fuel” is this a polite request only and do I have to adhere to it??

cheers again

Q

[Guest]

Re: Voluntary Termination

Hi

The legislation states tha the goods must have been reasonably looked after. Even if they are not it would not stop the termination.

If the MOT had actualy expired on the VT date they could in my opinion bill you for a new one, howevver if the MOT was still valid then they could not.

I would say nothing, if asked if it was MOT'd and there was only a couple of days remaining i would just say, yes it is.

Peter

[Guest]

Re: Voluntary Termination

Sorry regarding the fuel, is up to you personally i would leave them fumes, but i am bitter and twisted.

There is no requirement either way.

Peter

[DJMEE]

Re: Voluntary Termination

ha ha, me too, fumes it is then!!

The issue I have is that the alloys that are on the car are badly scuffed at the very edge of each alloy, likely to have been caused by curbing – but in all honesty I bought the car with probably 95% of the damage already present. The car is 9 years old and has had 6 different owners in that time – can they really hold me accountable for this damage, especially when the bulk if not all the damage to the wheels was present when they agreed to provide finance for the vehicle?? Seems unfair.

whats your thoughts on this Peter? should i have to pay for damage that was on the car before i bought it? would i have to prove it was there already, or is it form them to prove it wasn't??