Raymondo v BMW Finance

[Raymondo]

I have done.

I received another letter from the BMW recovery manager reminding me about the outstanding balance I owe and how the total liability will increase within 14 days.

I have decided to address the letter to Anna Serafin Recovery Manager and also use her email address too.

I will send it recorded post on Monday

[Raymondo]

[DJL74]

Hi Raymondo,

Can't reply properly in your PM because the character count is limited to 2000 so I've posted up in here.

You will need to explain the background to the solicitor, and mention that you terminated the agreement in accordance with section 99 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. You are afforded the protection under Section 100(1) which is limiting your liability to 50% of the total price. "total price" is defined under section 189 which excludes compensation or damages for breach of the agreement hence excess mileage note recoverable.

But in a nutshell your argument is breach of data protection for inaccurate reporting and possibly negligent misstatement. The main argument relies on the improper reporting by BMW of the excess mileage charges on your credit file for the reasons below:

1. They are reporting the excess mileage charges as late credit repayments. Excess mileage charges do not form any part of the credit that was advanced to you under the hp agreement, and therefore the reporting of it is inaccurate.

2. It gives a false and misleading impression to other creditors that you are late on your credit repayments when in fact this isn't the case as you terminated the agreement on X date. How can they continue to report the account as being late when the agreement no longer exists?

3. BMW is in breach of the guide (as approved by ICO) for reporting arrears and defaults. Although the guide doesn't specifically mention anything about late credit repayments, it does state that defaults should not be applied where the arrears are made up solely of fees and charges. Given that late credit repayments are a precursor to a default being applied, its therefore implied that late credit payment markers should also not be applied if the amount is made up of fees or charges. It would seem odd that you can do it for late payment markers but not for defaults which are more severe and the next stage. The guide at the end also refers to types of products and services where information is reported and one of those products or services is lease and hire purchase agreements. You'll see in the description box that it refers to monthly repayments which further points to the fact that information that should be reported is relating to the credit repayments, not simply fees or charges.

I've attached the SCOR Guidance and also an example letter before action (still a work in progress) which should give you a better understanding.

Rob/Raymondo

As means of an update I applied to have my data sent to me (see notice on 8th August). They have failed in their time afforded to them and still have information outstanding. The (incomplete) information they have provided can only be unlocked by calling a number which nobody answers. Whether this has any bearing on the above I do not know but I will keep you informed of events in my dispute. (Note: I emailed Graeme Grieve the CEO so he is aware that the breach of data requirements is happening on his watch).

[Raymondo]

I received a reply to the Letter before action I emailed the recovery department at BMW Financial Services and they seem to just ignore anything I tell them that they are in the wrong.

[Raymondo]

I gave them until the 17th October to accept my terms and close the account, remove the credit marker and cease the collection of £2,044.69 and I wrote to them requesting a detailed response no later than30th September.

its time to just wait and then instruct a solicitor because I’m not backing down. Also have nothing to lose going forward with it

[jeff2102]

Is there any further updates on this please.

[Grahammcm1888]

How did this work out for you RAYMONDO . I am in a similar position and will take legal action if required.

[Raymondo]

jeff2102 Grahammcm1888 R0b DJL74

sorry I have been silent on here for a while. I had other issues I needed to address with a family member seriously ill in hospital. Putting that aside I'm going to enjoy Christmas with my wife and two boys then in the New year I Plan to take BMW to court as they have now put 5 missed payment markers on my credit file and since September haven't contacted me in any way no invoices asking for money just missed payments each month on my credit file.

R0b am I right by thinking the legal cover I have with my home insurance that covered me for consumer disputes would cover me to take action against BMW? How would I use this to start proceedings? I'm thinking it's the case of contacting the legal cover and informing them I need legal representation and going from there.

I've contacted BBC Watchdog 6 times asking for them to cover this case as it's one of many where motor vehicle finance companies are bullying customers into paying fees they don't legally owe but are threatened into it to prevent credit markers hindering their chances of accessing further finance in future.

BBC have never replied so I gave no idea what they think about this.

any advice of help before I do this would be great.

regards

Raymondo

[R0b]

Assuming your legal expenses covers this type of claim then they wil generally review your case and consider the prospects of winning. Usually if the prospects are 51% or more they will tend to take the case on. So it is important to ensure that you give as much information as possible. I'll ping you over the transcript of the Mercedes case too so you have that as evidence of how a court has viewed things.

They are generally a panel of law firms and they are not always good but there you go you have to make that decision. If they reject your claim on the basis that they don't think it will be successful you could ask for their decision in writing to explain it. You might be able to appeal if they get it wrong but if they refuse, ultimately you might have to take your case to court yourself otherwise put up with what you have got.

[Raymondo]

Thank you so much R0b,

I'll read through the whole transcript and in the New year contact a law firm to start this off as I content BMW or any other company to vary on bullying customers into paying up when they don't need to.

[R0b]

If you want to rely on your legal expenses insurance, you need to contact that provider. Sometimes the policy allows to choose your own law firm but you have to pay a premium for doing so. The insurer will pass your details on to one of their panel firms or give you details to contact them direct.

If you just go to a law firm, you won't be covered by the policy unless you make them aware and follow the correct procedures. If you aren't successful with the insurer's panel firm you could seek a second opinion from a third party firm but you may have to pay initially for that advice unless you get free consultation.

What I would say is if you do want to use a third party, you may want to contact Paul Tilly who works for Wannops and I am sure is keen to take on a case like this - I also believe his initial consultation may be free. I've tagged him so he is aware of this in case you do contact him you can reference your thread. pt2537

[pt2537]

If you want to rely on your legal expenses insurance, you need to contact that provider. Sometimes the policy allows to choose your own law firm but you have to pay a premium for doing so. The insurer will pass your details on to one of their panel firms or give you details to contact them direct.

If you just go to a law firm, you won't be covered by the policy unless you make them aware and follow the correct procedures. If you aren't successful with the insurer's panel firm you could seek a second opinion from a third party firm but you may have to pay initially for that advice unless you get free consultation.

What I would say is if you do want to use a third party, you may want to contact Paul Tilly who works for Wannops and I am sure is keen to take on a case like this - I also believe his initial consultation may be free. I've tagged him so he is aware of this in case you do contact him you can reference your thread. pt2537

The ECJ has ruled on restricting freedom of choice for insurers, if the case is at the point for issuing you can use your policy and appoint your own firm not some panel company, panel, reminds me of a rickerty old fence when you say that word.

Anyway, if you have BTE insurances then thats worth looking into, more than happy to give the case the once over.

[Raymondo]

Thanks R0b Thanks pt2537 Paul

I plan to enjoy Christmas and this will be started in the New year and any help or guidance would be great.

if my policy doesn't cover I'm also happy to pay my own expenses and end this with BMW.

they have more to lose than I do and need to be shown they can't use bully tactics to get money from customers.

[Bass Player]

Raymondo I sympathise with your position and am in facing a very similar situation with VW having submitted my VT last week.

Similarly, during the sales process, the salesman revised the mileage down on my quotation to suit my affordability with no regard to futureproofing. He pretty much suggested when I negotiated my next deal any extra miles would be written-off anyway. No he didn’t have a gun to my head but he was dangling the keys to a new shiny car!!

Unfortunately, I don’t have the luxury of being able to disregard my credit file. Whilst I don’t plan on taking out any new services in the immediate future, I am only mid-thirties and things can change quickly.

What has struck me from reading through various posts on this forum is the acceptance that there is no black and white definitive answer to this. There are some eloquent arguments as to why legally the excess mileage shouldn’t be enforceable under VT, backed up with examples such as the Mercedes case. On the other hand, finance companies are not hesitating in proceeding with adding defaults to credit files and judged on the correspondence, they believe they have an equally credible case.

Where is the protection for the consumer in all of this? The issue is not new, so I really am baffled as to why clarification has not been sought by the financial conduct body and communicated appropriately. Either it is enforceable, or it isn’t!?

Personally, I will go on the charm offensive, then pity, then stubborn. If I can get them to settle halfway I will consider that a victory because a spoilt credit file and court battles cannot feature on my agenda.

Will follow this thread with interest.

[Mary redhead]

Need someone forum this site to email me thanks