Raymondo v BMW Finance

[Raymondo]

vipvipvip Thanks for adding that quite from Experian UK.

Analoguekid R0b
I have had Experian add a Notice Of Correction (NOC) to the account in order to inform all future lenders why BMW have added the late payment markers.

please see below the added NOC from Experian...

Notice of Correction request

As requested I’m adding the following statement to your Experian Credit Report: “I, Mr ...................................... would like to explain the circumstances that led to the late payments on the account started on 01/08/2015. As of my knowledge, I have received the acknowledgement of my notice to terminate the account and following collection of the vehicleon 04/05/2018 I received an invoice from them dated 11/06/2018 stating I am liable for excess mileage charges and collection fees and I pointed out via a solicitors letter to the lender I have for filled my legal liability of 50% in accordance with section 100(1) of the CCA where it states to terminate the hire purchase agreement was given under Section 99, my liability was limited to one half of the total price payable. I pointed out the total price has specific legal meaning under the CCA in that in permits the recoverability of sums relating to the total price payable but does not include any sums due by way of compensation of damages for breech of the agreement. I believe, the hire purchase agreement terminating on 04/05/2018 the lender has since gone on toreport charges after the termination date which resulted in late payments. I ask all lenders to take this into consideration.

” This’ll appear within the next seven days. If you need any more help, please let us know.

[Analoguekid]

Thanks Ray, I have similar but I may tweak your content to suit my circumstances. Cheers.

[Raymondo]

R0b pt2537,

Today I spoke with Dave Grover from Trinity claims team of Tonbridge Kent who told me my policy will cover such a claim but there is a clause I need to meet and at the moment after our very brief 3 minute conversation about the case that can't be certain it will reach the 51% likely to win.

I explained I have a ton of information about The Consumer Credit Act including a transcript from a similar case where Mercedes Benz Financial Services lost against a customer who they were claiming owed excessive milage following a voluntary termination.

do either of you have any advice without liability that could help me construct a letter to Dave Grover to support this case that would help convince them it's worth taking on?

Paul, Did you say if they take the case on I could use the legal expenses cover I have to instruct you as my solicitor? If this is the case how would I do that?

you seem enthusiastic to get a case like this through and I'm sure most would just bow down to the likes of BMW with their bully tactics and disregard the little customer who didn't pay their fees fully.

I'm hoping to teach the likes of BMW a lesson.

any advice would be welcome from anyone following this post.

I have a lot of info in the Letter Before Action template R0b sent me and can upload a copy of it with my circumstances in it if it helps.

[pt2537]

R0b pt2537,

Today I spoke with Dave Grover from Trinity claims team of Tonbridge Kent who told me my policy will cover such a claim but there is a clause I need to meet and at the moment after our very brief 3 minute conversation about the case that can't be certain it will reach the 51% likely to win.

I explained I have a ton of information about The Consumer Credit Act including a transcript from a similar case where Mercedes Benz Financial Services lost against a customer who they were claiming owed excessive milage following a voluntary termination.

do either of you have any advice without liability that could help me construct a letter to Dave Grover to support this case that would help convince them it's worth taking on?

Paul, Did you say if they take the case on I could use the legal expenses cover I have to instruct you as my solicitor? If this is the case how would I do that?

you seem enthusiastic to get a case like this through and I'm sure most would just bow down to the likes of BMW with their bully tactics and disregard the little customer who didn't pay their fees fully.

I'm hoping to teach the likes of BMW a lesson.

any advice would be welcome from anyone following this post.

I have a lot of info in the Letter Before Action template R0b sent me and can upload a copy of it with my circumstances in it if it helps.

Dealing with BTE insurers, generally they will require a written opinion from the legal representatives on the merits and prospects of success. This would normally set out the law, any case authorities etc relied up and which conclude the lawyers opinion on the merits of the case.

Each case is different, so you cannot take a one size fits all approach.

Im not sure a letter would be enough to get you over the line, thats certainly my initial view based on my own experiences of ATE and BTE insurers

[Raymondo]

So would I need to put all the evidence I have before a solicitor and convince them to write to Trinity claims supporting the success Off the case?

roughly what cost would this be?

I think Dave Grover said if the case was accepted any solicitors fees could be paid if an independent opinion was needed

[DJL74]

Raymondo

i am currently going through similar with BMW - just had a letter from Ombudsman saying they are looking at how they can move this complaint forward due to the large numbers of similar cases. Hopefully something positive comes from it

[Raymondo]

I never took mine to the ombudsman but still have a few weeks to do so before it's too late.

I've been trying to get the legal part of my home insurance to cover a court case against BMW but my legal cover are saying because the incumident happens before the policy was taken out they cannot cover me.

I have tried to explain I'm not paying BMW and they aren't asking for the money as such just reporting a missed payment each month in a bully tactic to get me to give in and it's not working, however I feel others not in my position may not be so fortunate to be able to just ignore them.

are the ombudsmen implying you should just pay or BMW are in their rights to that money as you signed a contract?

I've been told they just see a contract and think BMW are correct and totally disregard the Consumer Credit Act

[Raymondo]

R0b pt2537
I have chased Dave Grover from Trinity Claims by emaumil and by phone for the lastv8 weeks he is constantly ginmvi g me the slip saying can't get an answer yet, or he will call me back and it takes weeks. Not very professional at all. I thought I would be able to use my home insurance legal cover to claim against BMW but they are saying the event occurred before I took out cover. My argument on this is there is a dispute between us prior and neither of us are will g to back down but the event as they call hasn't really started in my eyes until it reaches court where a judge needs to settle this matter.

what's humour opinion on this?

should I just instruct a solicitor myself instead of trying to get my home insurance legal cover to take the cost?

Today he sent me this Email I have cut and paste below...

Ray, Please accept my apologies for the delay in confirming cover on this matter. Unfortunately I am still in a position where I am unable to do so. You may recall that during our last telephone conversation I mentioned that the event which led to the claim occurred prior to the inception of your recent policy and is, therefore, not covered under section 2 on page 9 and 1.b. on page 11. During our last telephone conversation you mentioned that there was no dispute with BMW until you were made aware that BMW had reported the matter to Experian in January 2019. However, your letter before action is dated 17 September 2018, prior to the inception of your current policy. I will, of course, make any further representations you wish and as mentioned in my voicemail, will call you tomorrow. Yours sincerely, David Grover Liability Claims Trinity Claims Team

[R0b]

Hello

There are usually stipulations in the insurance to say you can't make a claim if the event occurred before the insurance was taken out, and for certain claims (like employment) you can't you are prohibited for at least a month or two after the insurance was taken. So what they are saying sounds correct but without seeing the policy its only an assumption.

Whether you want to instruct a solicitor to deal with the matter is a decision only you can take weighing up the costs/benefits. If you do instruct one, then I would suggest contacting Paul and seeing if he will take on your case - at least you'll know he will do his best and has consumer credit knowledge.

If you've still got time to complain to the Ombudsman then now might be the time to do that. Not sure how up to speed you are but since the Mercedes county court case in February 2018 (can't remember if you are aware of this case?), the Ombudsman is now reconsidering its position on excess mileage charges, though no decision has yet been made; the letter below is doing the rounds for those who have complained recently and if the outcome is positive, I wouldn't want you losing out. Given that its free, it's worth a punt in the meantime whilst you look at your legal options.

One final point if I may, do you have a full copy of the BMW agreement including all the terms and conditions that you can upload? I'm looking at some alternative arguments and haven't got a BMW agreement with an excess mileage clause in it.

[pt2537]

The insurers are not allowed to stop you choosing your own lawyer http://riad-online.eu/news-publicati...n-eschig-case/ Plainly if they are telling you that you cannot choose its contrary to EU Law. Please see the above link

[Raymondo]

Hi R0b,

thanks for the advice, I will check if I have time and if not I'll go down the epseptional circumstances route as it's very difficult to prove otherwise if I put a good case forward.

I will send you the BMW HP agreement in full as a private message

Ray

[R0b]

The insurers are not allowed to stop you choosing your own lawyer http://riad-online.eu/news-publicati...n-eschig-case/ Plainly if they are telling you that you cannot choose its contrary to EU Law. Please see the above link

I think the issue now is that they are saying the dispute with BMW arose before Raymondo took out the insurance, which is why he isn't covered.

[DJL74]

Raymondo

i am currently going through similar with BMW - just had a letter from Ombudsman saying they are looking at how they can move this complaint forward due to the large numbers of similar cases. Hopefully something positive comes from it

The Ombudsman have said they are taking a look at the whole issue due to the high volume of cases. In the past I think the FOS have just gone with the car company (as a reasonable judgement) but I think more and more the tactics employed by these companies are becoming more menacing and the FOS (supported by cases/judgements are hopefully now making an informed decision). - I may be wrong but hopefully they are looking more favourably towards the consumer - like many say they are promised a lot at the dealership but can never prove any 'over-sell' so the car companies feel they have a free ride knowing the FOS will find in their favour. BMW were terrible with me - data breaches and a final email saying lets go to court we have a legal team waiting. As you say bully boy tactics that some would be frightened of.

[Raymondo]

R0b pt2537 DJL74
sorry! I don't think I will take this case on. The solicitor I saw said it would cost me more to fight it than to pay it off and if I don't use credit just ignore it them.

I've had 10 missed payment markers now and still BMW haven't taken any action other than to put the missed payment markers on my account.

I'm passed the 6 months period to complain to the ombudsman but as it's an on going complaint every month with each new marker can I still complain to the ombudsman about their foul play and incorrect procedures?

the attachment shows the markers are named 1,2,3,4,5,6 then, 6,6,6 and 6 again. Is this a tactic to remain on 6 missed payments by naming them 6. I get a notification to say it's now 10 missed payments and at the top of the attached page it stated the following...

• Payments made and up to date.
• 1, 2 or 3 payments made.
• 4, 5 or 6 payments late. 8 indicates that you have failed to keep your credit agreement and have not responded
  satisfactorily to requests to put your account in order. As a result the credit agreement has ended.

but BMW are keeping this account going still, is this grounds to make a new complaint to the ombudsman?

Ray

[R0b]

Hi Raymondo,

I see where you are coming from and understand why you don't want to pursue it further. If you think you can live without the need for credit in the future then what is put on your credit file with BMW is irrelevant but it might appear that you will be stuck in a continuous loop of receiving late payments. That said, I still think you have a good case to argue and certainly grounds for aggravated damages the way in which BMW have gone about this. Looking at your the BMW account there I can see the agreement started on 1 August 2015 with 47 months' worth of payments. At the very latest, those late payment markers shouldn't go beyond that date because then I think BMW would have themselves in a sticky situation to try and argue that they can forever apply a late payment marker to an agreement that has already terminated and gone beyond the 47 months the contract was to last for. Again, that's something for you to consider but you only have 6 years to do it.

As for complaining to the FOS, I'm not sure your thought process is going to work. The late payments are interconnected and if you've already had the final outcome from BMW but chose not to take it up with the FOS, then I think you've missed your chance and the only option now is court. I should say however, that you might be kicking yourself for not raising your complaint to the FOS if it decides that lenders are not entitled to excess mileage charges based on the County Court decision.

Of course, nothing is stopping you from having a pop yourself and issuing legal proceedings as a litigant in person and I'm sure some of us on here can guide you through the process if need be.