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**STRUCK OUT!!** Civil Enforcement County Court Claim Form

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  • **STRUCK OUT!!** Civil Enforcement County Court Claim Form

    On December 13th 2016 I parked outside the Ibis Hotel at Luton. I was there for about 2 hours but it stated that only 10 minutes were free. I did not double dip, I stayed parked for the entire 2 hours. After this I received a PCN with a photograph of my car entering the site which requested that I pay a much smaller fine that I currently have (£326.57). I wrote them an email on the 1st of January 2017 in which I admitted to being the driver, I have attached a screenshot of this email. After this I ignored all the letters and I have received a claim form from the County Court Business Centre. I have no idea how to fill it in and if there is any possibility of me avoiding the fine or if I should just pay the amount. I have attached all the letters that I have. It would be very kind if someone could help me out. I have a CEL defence but I am unsure whether some details are outdated and if all the points are relevant to my case. Thank you for your help.

    For my CEL defence I currently have this:

    In the County Court Business Centre
    Claim Number: --------

    Between:

    Civil Enforcement Limited v -------

    I am -------, the defendant in this matter and previous registered keeper of vehicle --------. I currently reside at ----------.

    I deny I am liable for the entirety of the claim for each of the following reasons:

    1. The Claim Form issued on 11/10/2017 by Civil Enforcement Limited was not
    correctly filed under The Practice Direction as it was not signed by a legal person but signed by “Civil Enforcement Limited (Claimant’s Legal Representative)”.

    2. This Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol. And as an example as to why this prevents a full defence being filed at this time, a parking charge can be for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge. All these are treated differently in law and require a different defence. The wording of any contract will naturally be a key element in this matter, and a copy of the alleged contract has never been provided to the Defendant.

    a) There was no compliant ‘Letter before County Court Claim’, under the Practice Direction.

    b) This is a speculative serial litigant, issuing a large number of identical 'draft particulars'. The badly mail-merged documents contain very little information.

    c) The Schedule of information is sparse of detailed information.

    d) The Claim form Particulars were extremely sparse and divulged no cause of action nor sufficient detail. The Defendant has no idea what the claim is about - why the charge arose, what the alleged contract was; nothing that could be considered a fair exchange of information. The Claim form Particulars did not contain any evidence of contravention or photographs.

    e) The Defence therefore asks the Court to strike out the claim as having no reasonable prospect of success as currently drafted.

    f) Alternatively, the Defendant asks that the Claimant is required to file Particulars which comply with Practice Directions and include at least the following information;

    (i) Whether the matter is being brought for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge, and an explanation as to the exact nature of the charge
    (ii) A copy of any contract it is alleged was in place (e.g. copies of signage)
    (iii) How any contract was concluded (if by performance, then copies of signage maps in place at the time)
    (iv) Whether keeper liability is being claimed, and if so copies of any Notice to Driver / Notice to Keeper
    (v) Whether the Claimant is acting as Agent or Principal, together with a list of documents they will rely on in this matter
    (vi) If charges over and above the initial charge are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed
    (vii) If Interest charges are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed

    g) Once these Particulars have been filed, the Defendant asks for reasonable time to file another defence.

    3. The Claimant failed to meet the Notice to Keeper obligations of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Absent such a notice served within 14 days of the parking event and with fully compliant statutory wording, this Claimant is unable to hold me liable under the strict ‘keeper liability’ provisions.

    Schedule 4 also states that the only sum a keeper can be pursued for (if Schedule 4 is fully complied with, which it was not, and if there was a 'relevant obligation' and relevant contract' fairly and adequately communicated, which there was not as there was no clear, transparent information about how to obtain a permit either inside or outside the site) is the sum on the Notice to Keeper. They cannot pluck another sum from thin air and bolt that on as well when neither the signs, nor the NTK, nor the permit information mentioned a possible £326.57 for outstanding debt and damages.

    4. The Claimant has added unrecoverable sums to the original parking charge. It is believed that the employee who drew up the paperwork is remunerated and the particulars of claim are templates, so it is simply not credible that £50 'legal representative’s (or even admin) costs' were incurred. I deny the Claimant is entitled to any interest whatsoever.

    5. This case can be distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 (the Beavis case) which was dependent upon an undenied contract, formed by unusually prominent signage forming a clear offer and which turned on unique facts regarding the location and the interests of the landowner. Strict compliance with the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) was paramount and Mr. Beavis was the driver who saw the signs and entered into a contract to pay £85 after exceeding a licence to park free. None of this applies in this material case.

    6. In the absence of any proof of adequate signage that contractually bound the Defendant then there can have been no contract and the Claimant has no case.

    a) The Claimant is put to strict proof that at the time of the alleged event they had both advertisement consent and the permission from the site owner to display the signs.

    b) In the absence of strict proof I submit that the Claimant was committing an offence by displaying their signs and therefore no contract could have been entered into between the driver and the Claimant.

    c) BPA CoP breaches - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    (i) the signs were not compliant in terms of the font size, lighting or positioning.
    (ii) the sum pursued exceeds £100.
    (iii) there is / was no compliant landowner contract.

    7. No standing - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    It is believed Civil Enforcement do not hold a legitimate contract at this car park. As an agent, the Claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim in their name which should be in the name of the landowner.

    8. No legitimate interest - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    This Claimant files serial claims regarding sites where they have lost the contract, known as revenge claims and it believed this is one such case. This is not a legitimate reason to pursue a charge out of proportion with any loss or damages the true landowner could pursue.

    9. The Beavis case confirmed the fact that, if it is a matter of trespass (not breach of any contract), a parking firm has no standing as a non-landowner to pursue even nominal damages.

    10. The charge is an unenforceable penalty based upon a lack of commercial justification. The Beavis case confirmed that the penalty rule is certainly engaged in any case of a private parking charge and was only disengaged due to the unique circumstances of that case, which do not resemble this claim.

    The Defendant denies any liability whatsoever to the Claimant in any matter and asks the Court to note that the Claimant has:

    (a) Failed to disclose any cause of action in the incorrectly filed Claim Form issued on 12th June 2017.

    (b) Sent a template, well-known to be generic cut and paste 'Particulars' of claim relying on irrelevant case law (Beavis) which ignores the fact that this Claimant cannot hold registered keepers liable in law, due to their own choice of non-POFA documentation.

    The vague Particulars of Claim disclose no clear cause of action. The court is invited to strike out the claim of its own volition as having no merit and no reasonable prospects of success.

    I confirm that the above facts and statements are true to the best of my knowledge and recollection.

    Signed
    Date
    Attached Files
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Civil Enforcement County Court Claim Form

    I wish you well with this and hope that you can come out of it OK. No doubt there will be someone on here who can help you.

    However, you began with this statement: "On December 13th 2016 I parked outside the Ibis Hotel at Luton. I was there for about 2 hours but it stated that only 10 minutes were free. I did not double dip, I stayed parked for the entire 2 hours."

    In paragraph 2d of your defence you state: "
    The Claim form Particulars were extremely sparse and divulged no cause of action nor sufficient detail. The Defendant has no idea what the claim is about - why the charge arose, what the alleged contract was; nothing that could be considered a fair exchange of information. The Claim form Particulars did not contain any evidence of contravention or photographs."

    Denying liability and admitting nothing are perfectly valid legal tactics, but you must be careful not to lie when you say you do not know what the matter is about, because you began by giving a full and complete explanation. It is evident that you do!

    I have found that on the odd occasion I have had to deal with w**kers like this that it is better to play them at their own system and put them to a vast amount of work at the start of the process. Often they will just get fed up and let you off.

    The problem comes when you ignore everything and get a claim form. When someone has issued for something simple like this, they are less likely to back off. Its not really a complex matter. The very fact that they have your vehicle number means that they have some form of evidence. You will hardly be able to deny that you were there.

    Of course, they will have to disclose the evidence in due course, but the secret with all matters like this is not to let them get this far. you need to fight it right from the off.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Civil Enforcement County Court Claim Form

      Hi & welcome to LB.

      It's a pity you ID'd the driver......the Notice to Keeper looks to be defective for keeper liability. (It's a bit blurry so I can't say 100% certain.....but in any case that defence is no longer a realistic option).

      Tbh, I don't think that I can add anything to the advice/opinions on PePiPoo.
      CAVEAT LECTOR

      This is only my opinion - "
      Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

      You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
      Cohen, Herb

      There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
      gets his brain a-going.
      Phelps, C. C.

      "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
      The last words of John Sedgwick

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Civil Enforcement County Court Claim Form

        Hi and thank you for taking the time to reply.

        So just to be on the safe side I should delete paragraph 2d?

        And should I not include NTK at all in my defence?

        Thanks again

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Civil Enforcement County Court Claim Form

          Have you received the Claimant's particulars of claim yet? (Served separately).
          CAVEAT LECTOR

          This is only my opinion - "
          Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

          You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
          Cohen, Herb

          There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
          gets his brain a-going.
          Phelps, C. C.

          "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
          The last words of John Sedgwick

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Civil Enforcement County Court Claim Form

            No, everything that I have sent and received I have posted in the thread.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Civil Enforcement County Court Claim Form

              According to the Particulars of Claim on the N1 court claim, detailed Particulars are being sent separately.
              If so it is best to wait for this before filing a defence (which is, after all, in part a response to the particularised claim).
              CAVEAT LECTOR

              This is only my opinion - "
              Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

              You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
              Cohen, Herb

              There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
              gets his brain a-going.
              Phelps, C. C.

              "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
              The last words of John Sedgwick

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Civil Enforcement County Court Claim Form

                Time is tight and I have not received the particulars of claim. Can someone please guide me with NtKs and initial defence? Thank you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Civil Enforcement County Court Claim Form

                  It would be most unwise to file a defence without sight of the PoC.
                  You wouldn't know exactly what the Claimant is claiming.
                  CAVEAT LECTOR

                  This is only my opinion - "
                  Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                  You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                  Cohen, Herb

                  There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                  gets his brain a-going.
                  Phelps, C. C.

                  "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                  The last words of John Sedgwick

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Civil Enforcement County Court Claim Form

                    Okay I understand. Thanks. But the PoC should definitely come? It states that the PoC will be provided to me within 14 days after service of the claim form. I have not yet filled my claim form in. Should I do this now?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Civil Enforcement County Court Claim Form

                      My PoC came around 20 days after, but they will back date the document to something like the 11th October when you receive it.

                      The folks who give you advice on here are incredible, but to avoid having to ask every minute detail and save yourself a bit of time I would advise reading this thread - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=5735738

                      Few mistakes that I have made that you shouldn't;

                      1 - keep the envelope from the PoC when you receive it. The date stamp vs. the date on the letter can be very telling
                      2 - use the post office to post everything back to them and make sure you keep record of every document out
                      3 - copy yourself in to all comms

                      It states that the PoC will be provided to me within 14 days after service of the claim form. I have not yet filled my claim form in. Should I do this now?
                      An interesting extract from the MSE website link that i posted states that;

                      CEL are now issuing claims which state that further PoC are “to follow”.

                      The CPR state that such PoC must be served within 14 days of the date the Claim is deemed served (date on Claim Form plus 5 days)- see R7.4(2).

                      If you receive a claim like this
                      you do not have to acknowledge service until after the further PoC have been served and time does not start to run for serving the AoS or the defence until after they have been served.

                      I am sure there is someone on here that can confirm this is correct, but worth bearing in mind before you acknowledge the claim with the court.
                      Last edited by OliverJames; 30th October 2017, 15:35:PM. Reason: Highlighting extract

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Civil Enforcement County Court Claim Form

                        CPR PD 7E (Money Claim On Line...see link below)

                        6.4 Where the proceedings are not sent to a County Court hearing centre under paragraph 12.1 or 12.2 and remain at the County Court Business Centre, the claimant is not required to file the particulars of claim [at court*] unless ordered to do so.
                        (Paras 12.1 & 12.2 are specific circumstances not relevant here.)
                        *My words inserted here

                        However

                        6.1 Where the particulars of claim are served by the claimant separately from the claim form pursuant to paragraph 5.2(2), the claimant must –(1) serve the particulars of claim in accordance with rule 7.4(1)(b); and
                        (2) file a certificate of service in form N215 at the County Court Business Centre within 14 days of service of the particulars of claim on the defendant.
                        https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...pd_part07e#6.1
                        CAVEAT LECTOR

                        This is only my opinion - "
                        Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                        You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                        Cohen, Herb

                        There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                        gets his brain a-going.
                        Phelps, C. C.

                        "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                        The last words of John Sedgwick

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Civil Enforcement County Court Claim Form

                          I have received the PoC, i have attached it.

                          I hope I have a chance at winning.

                          Thanks for the tips Oliver, I have kept the envelope!

                          Thank you for your help!
                          Attached Files

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Civil Enforcement County Court Claim Form

                            Thanks [MENTION=108472]innocentrabbit[/MENTION]

                            I recognise ALL of these documents, so it is definitely a massive mailout from CEL

                            While you wait for [MENTION=5553]charitynjw[/MENTION] and [MENTION=39331]ostell[/MENTION] to get back to you, I would recommend reading the last 10 or 12 posts on my thread starting around this point - http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...page4&p=761565

                            Have you acknowledged the claim with Money Claim Online yet? If so, when did you do that? (sorry if im going over old ground)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Civil Enforcement County Court Claim Form

                              They are trying to throw the system to their benefit. Have you still got the envelope with a posted date on it? When they submit they are supposed to send a certificate of service to the court. Find out from the court, a phone call, if it has been submitted and what date is on it. They could be going for a default judgement based on the date on the certificate of service.

                              Write to the court telling the court telling them that the date of service for the particulars of claim was whenever you received it and you will have the 28 days from this time to prepare your defence, Hint that this an attempt to subvert the deliberations of the court to the disadvantage of the defendant.

                              Anyway, that PoC has meny mistruths. Without going into each paragraph they keep saying that the defendant was driving. How do they know that, they were not there at the time and the claim was as a result of a ANPR camera. They do not know the defendant breached the terms and conditions.

                              It has been signed with a statement of truth but you can show that they cannot possible know the if statements they have made about the defendant are true.

                              I note that they have admitted that they are claiming money for legal costs, not allowed in small claims track.

                              There are many discussions about these late PoC on the pepipoo forums. May help you.

                              Comment

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