PCN from Civil Enforcement Ltd. - WON

[mbaldw]

Hi folks,

I know there are various threads on this subject already, but I'm a newbie here and utterly inexperienced at this, so I want to make sure I'm doing this right. The situation is this:

I parked in a private carpark while I picked up someone from the ferry terminal opposite (no parking at said terminal). The signs say that the first 10 minutes are free and then you have to pay by phone (no P&D ticket machines). I thought I was within the time, but earlier this week I received a Parking Charge Notice from Civil Enforcement Ltd. saying that I was actually in the carpark for 11 minutes and 28 second and that, for this 1 min 28 sec overstay I owe them £100 (or £60 if I pay by 17th November. As far as I'm concerned this is a massively exaggerated charge for a genuine oversight. Hence, I'm wanting to appeal.

I just want to check that I'm right in first sending them this:

"Dear Sirs,

I, as registered keeper, wish to invoke your appeals procedure. The driver did not see any signs. In any event the charges are penal and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

In the event that you refuse my appeal, please send me a PoPLA code. I am under no statutory obligation to name the driver and will not be doing so.

Yours faithfully,"

I wasn't sure whether to explain the siltation as I have here, given that I did actually see the sign (but thought I was within the time limit), or just leave it at that?

Cheers,
Marc.

[mystery1]

Re: PCN from Civil Enforecement Ltd.

I would add " i draw your attention to the BPA code of practice 13.4 "You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. " 88 seconds is a reasonable period particularly when you take in to account that your camera timed the vehicle from entry and not from the time of parking."

M1

[mbaldw]

Re: PCN from Civil Enforecement Ltd.

Thanks M1 - I'm glad I posted now! So, with this in mind, am I better going for that angle, rather than the didn't see the signs one. So, something like this:

"I, as registered keeper, wish to invoke your appeals procedure. The sign in the carpark stated that the first 10 minutes of parking was free. The car was recorded in the carpark for 11 minutes and 28 seconds (i.e. 88 seconds longer than the allowed time). I draw your attention to the BPA code of practice 13.4: "You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action”. I believe that 88 seconds is a reasonable period particularly when you take in to account that your camera timed the vehicle from entry and not from the time of parking. In any event the charges are penal and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

In the event that you refuse my appeal, please send me a PoPLA code. I am under no statutory obligation to name the driver and will not be doing so.

Thanks again for your help.
Cheers,
Marc.

[mystery1]

Re: PCN from Civil Enforecement Ltd.

:okay:

M1

[mbaldw]

Re: PCN from Civil Enforcement Ltd.

Awesome. I will post back to say how it went.

Thanks M1.

Cheers,
Marc.

[mbaldw]

Re: PCN from Civil Enforcement Ltd.

Hi M1,

I'm just wondering if there is a set period in which you'd expect a response to a PCN appeal. I sent the appeal recorded delivery and it was signed for on 10th Nov at 12:25pm, but I've heard nothing back. I checked the website and it still shows the parking fine, now £100 as the 'early payment' window has expired. I'm just wondering how long to leave it before following up, or do I just forget about it until they contact me, how ever long that might take?

Cheers,
Marc.

[mystery1]

Re: PCN from Civil Enforcement Ltd.

They have 35 days to get back to you. As long as you have proof they have your appeal you'll be fine.

M1

[mbaldw]

Re: PCN from Civil Enforcement Ltd.

Great, thanks. I have the proof of delivery from the Royal Mail website, so no worries there.

Cheers,
Marc.

[mbaldw]

Re: PCN from Civil Enforcement Ltd.

Right, well, as expected Civil Enforcement rejected my appeal and provided a PoPLA code. They stated in their letter that the signs clearly state that only authorised permit holders should use the carpark. I went down to the carpark and, sure enough, brand shiny new signs say just this - no 10 minutes free any more. Given that I have no proof that the signs were ever saying 10 mins free, am I just resigned to paying the fine, or do I proceed with the appeal to PoPLA and just suck up the extra £40 it'll cost me if I lose?

Cheers,
Marc.

[mystery1]

Re: PCN from Civil Enforcement Ltd.

Popla is what i'd do but it's your call. I'm still awaiting some new results to come in since the British parking association changed the code of prcactice but i'm still super confident you'd win.

M1

[mbaldw]

Re: PCN from Civil Enforcement Ltd.

I appreciate your optimism, M1. If I do appeal the PCN, I presume I'm doing so on the "The parking charge (ticket) exceeded the appropriate amount" basis, given that the signs now clearly put me in the wrong and state that £100 fine is incurred for all non-permit holders parking in the carpark for how ever long they stay?

Cheers,
Marc.

[mystery1]

Re: PCN from Civil Enforcement Ltd.

Several points including the above. It's a penalty too.

I'll get it done soon.

M1

[mbaldw]

Re: PCN from Civil Enforcement Ltd.

Thanks M1. mashappy:

[mystery1]

Re: PCN from Civil Enforcement Ltd.

Where abouts is this ?

M1

[mbaldw]

Re: PCN from Civil Enforcement Ltd.

As in, where abouts in the country? Southampton.

Cheers,
Marc.