County Court claim recveived for PCN issued nearly 4 years ago!

[Mavs24]

Hello

I would like to try to seek some advice having just read through an excellent thread on here please.

I have received a County Court claim form today for a PCN that was issued on 14/08/2015. The ticket was issued in a Staples car park in Leeds for £60 (or £100 if not paid within 14 days) by Vehicle Control Services Ltd for 'Returning to a car park within the no return period/time.' I do still have the ticket in my possession and will post a picture. I received three letters from a collections company chasing the fine close to the time and opted to ignore. I then received another 3 letters from a different company a few months later which I also ignored. I thought it had just gone away, but then in April this year I received another letter this time demanding payment by 24th May 2019 or court action would be taken. I again decided to ignore this hoping it was a last ditch attempt to scare me into paying up, but obviously not.

I do not want to pay this fine so wish to dispute it. The amounts on the letter include an admin fee of £60 and estimated interest of £46.26, so in total £231.26, however the amount on the Court letter is £185. I am no longer the owner owner of the vehicle, but one thing I have noticed is on the hand written ticket they have stated the model of the car is 'other', and the colour of the car is 'black' when in fact the car is grey. I don't know if this is anything, but it is inaccurate information - I will add some pictures below.

Any advice would on what to do for my defence would by massively appreciated - and I can give more info if needed.

Thank you in advance. :-)

[charitynjw]

Hi & welcome to LB.

Lol.....yet another court claim about an alleged incident from yonks ago.
These jokers really are chancers!

Is there still a Staples at that location?
If so, do VCS still 'patrol'/enforce parking there?

Btw, ensure that you acknowledge the court claim asap.....you don't want them to secure a judgment by default.

[Mavs24]

Hi, Thank you for your welcome and response, and I share your sentiments exactly...Absolute chancers!! And I will acknowledge the Court claim tomorrow, thank you.

So, today I have returned to the site for the first time in 4 years (since the incident) to check it out and with photographic evidence I can confirm Staples is no more. It was replaced with Office Outlet which has also been permanently closed down. I have also taken pictures of the signs and car park, and it is clear that VCS are NOT mentioned at all.

I also noted that in the 'Particulars of claim' statement it implies 'The terms and conditions upon entering private land were clearly displayed'. This is beyond a joke as I have no recollection of seeing this from 4 years ago, and now there is one sign to the left only that is barely noticeable from the side (depending on which way you drive in), and could have been put up two weeks ago judging by the state of the wooden post it's attached to. There are other signs dotted around on lampposts in the desolate car park too that I can neither confirm nor deny were there all those years ago! I've attached some photos taken today to try and give a better view of what I'm describing with the current signage!

1) The 'clearly displayed' sign at the entrance (only if you come in from the right, as turning from left you would not see).
2) The view to your right if you drive in from the left.
3) The space I parked in when I received the ticket to the far right (as far away from the building as possible).
4) Staples/Office Outlet/Whatever next??!
5) The Kate Moss of sign posts if driving in from the left (same sign as in pic 1 if turning in from the left).
6) Close up of current signage (No mention of Vehicle Control Services).

Please excuse my sarcasm!! But I hope this gives a clearer view of what I'm trying to describe and seek advice on.

Again, any advice is so appreciated. Thank you ;-)

[Mavs24]

Pictures as described above:

[charitynjw]

Imho, they've got no hope of enforcing this.
Is there anything written on the back of that notice to driver?
& out of sheer noseyness, how come you kept a copy?

Have a look at laches.
I've a feeling it could be of use to you.

[Mavs24]

Ha!! For some reason (probably that my mother is a hoarder!!), I keep everything!! It was by pure chance I had this ticket as thought i'd binned it - but had it together with a Council parking ticket I got approx 2 weeks earlier that I overturned as I genuinely paid for the parking and had proof...another story...but also the reason I attempted to find 'said' parking elsewhere...work related minimal options unless you're an overpaid exec!!

I really hope you're right about having no chance of enforcement! I have sent in my acknowledgment of the claim today requesting the 28 days for defence, and realised from the court letter the claim was blatantly done over the internet. I can only imagine they've targeted many more than just me in an attempt to rack up the funds in their oversized bank account!

Thank you again for your response. I attach a photo of the back of the notice (appears vintage as its so old now!!). Any further thoughts/advice are so welcome!! Thank you for your replies so far....please keep them coming!!

Also, thank you for the 'laches' link - literally just read the first paragraph and that is amazing!! Thank you so much - it rings so true to what is occurring right now!! WOW!!!

[charitynjw]

Have you been in communication at any time with either the parking co (&/or, if applicable,their sols), & if so, have you ID'd who was driving at the time of the alleged contravention?

[Mavs24]

I have not had any communication whatsoever with the parking company or any person associated with them, therefore have not identified the driver.

[charitynjw]

I have not had any communication whatsoever with the parking company or any person associated with them, therefore have not identified the driver.

Good.
So now, the all important (postal?) notice to registered keeper.....have you retained that?
If so, post up a pic, front & rear, redact personal data but leave all times & dates visible.

[Mavs24]

So, after spending all morning going through all the papers I have kept over the years, I cannot locate any of the letters I received in relation to this incident. I don't open my mail regularly (unless it looks important), and recall opening the first 3 letters all in one go as it just appeared as junk mail. I have a feeling I threw them all away after taking advice at the time to ignore them and avoid any contact with the company. The only letter I have is the one I uploaded in the first post on this thread with the final warning. There is no mention of any times on this letter, so again am in a position 4 years on of having no proof of anything!

[charitynjw]

No worries, you can request copies of the evidence they intend to use.
See post #28 here

& anyway, the signs that you've posted up are for UKCPS
The NtD you've got is for VCS, a different company.

[Mavs24]

Thank you, interesting read - so should I request as per 'post 28' directly from VCS?

I should mention I will be out of the country from Weds 3rd July through to 18th July, but can arrange to have my mail checked whilst I'm away (I will have internet access so can keep up to date on here) - obvs this was the last thing I needed before a planned get away - the date on the court claim letter is 24th June 2019.

[charitynjw]

Thank you, interesting read - so should I request as per 'post 28' directly from VCS?
If they are legally represented, then to the solicitor; if not, then to Claimant per the address on the claim form..

I should mention I will be out of the country from Weds 3rd July through to 18th July, but can arrange to have my mail checked whilst I'm away (I will have internet access so can keep up to date on here) - obvs this was the last thing I needed before a planned get away - the date on the court claim letter is 24th June 2019.
So your defence will be due 33 days from the claim issue date (or the next working day if the 33rd day is a weekend or BH.)
I make that Mon 29th July.....agreed?

####

[Mavs24]

Perfect - I've started to look and reword at the template from the thread you referred me to, and there is no solicitors address, just VCS.

Agreed with the dates, thank you, so will have over a week to fully prepare on my return.

Could you possibly advise me on what documents I need to request in the letter based on the information I have in the claim statement and what I'm missing for my defence prep please?

[Mavs24]

Further to the above, I've put together a draft to send off to VCS requesting documentation (posted below). Given that the signs that are there now are from UKCPS and not to VCS who are making the claim, should I request photographic evidence, or is this asking too much? I ask this because neither they nor I have any evidence they were there.

Dear Sirs,

Claim Number: xxxxxxxx

Request for documents mentioned in a statement of case under CPR 31.14

On 26 June 2019 I received a County Court claim from you. I have acknowledged receipt indicating my intention to defend in full.

To enable me to file my defence, I require inspection of the documents and contract on which you have based your claim ahead of filing my defence on 29 July 2019. In your statement of case you refer to terms and conditions as set out on signs at the site. Therefore, I require:

1. Details of the terms and conditions for the Staples & Soundcontrol Carpark site.
2. Details of the size and location of the signs that you say were displayed on the site.
3. Details of the wording on the signs that you say were at the entrance and details of the wording on the signs that you say were located at prominent locations throughout the site, if the wording differs.
4. Copies of all correspondence sent to the address of the registered keeper of the vehicle.
5. A copy of the landowner/parking company contract enabling you to operate on the site plus any other relevant intermediate contracts.
6. Notice of Assignment if applicable.

In accordance with CPR 31.15(c) I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

You should note that this claim has not yet been allocated to a specific track and the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect. Had your claim not been issued through CCBC the Claimant would have been obliged to attach copies of the documentation upon which it relies to the Particulars of Claim.

I, as Defendant, am entitled to see the documents on which you, as Claimant, rely and which you must produce at trial. Disclosure at this stage will enable me to fully plead my case and further the Overriding Objective.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents and details I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter.

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing and confirm your agreement to an extension of the time allowed for me to file my defence as allowed under CPR 15.5 so I may notify the court.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

xxxxxxxx