The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

@R0b

I guess my questions / thoughts are:

Firstly I need to write to CEL again asking them for photos & details of what the claim is for, to show the court that at least I have tried again.

I'm struggling to prepare anything more than the above previous post, not knowing where, or the time, that the issue in question happaned. Ive ordered a copy credit card statement for the date in question (4 February 2015) to see if that helps.

Anything else is guesswork. Ive (sadly) looked at every car park that the car may have been in that period and it comes down to one that Ive found. It is true to say that 3 people were driving the car in that period. Homebase, Easygym and Topps Tiles share the car park. I was a member of easygym on 4 February 2015, and that would have meant that if I had gone there on that day I would have been allowed to park there for in excess of the 1 hour displayed. I have a screen shot of my easygym account showing membership on the date in question, but for it to be accepted on the day I have to send a copy to CEL, and thats sort of indicating I know where the "offence" happened, which I dont

Truth is though, how can I prepare anything else to go to the court on that day on guesswork. Seems to me that all CEL need to do is nothing ... and when I get there on the day I will be at a complete disadvantage.

[mystery1]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

Potentially they won't help. Worth asking though.

It may still be worth contacting the gym management to see if they'll intervene.

M1

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

Potentially they won't help. Worth asking though.

It may still be worth contacting the gym management to see if they'll intervene.

M1

Theres the rub. I can't because I dont know if it is anything to do with that car park or them

[mystery1]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

I'd ask the gym manager anyway. What have you got to lose ?

M1

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

I will, I'll pop up there in the next few days

So .... you think theres little else I should do in terms of defence?

Is gathering detail in anticipation of it possibly being that particular car park going to look acceptable in the judges eyes normally?

I would add, any "evidence" I put together also has to be sent to CEL, otherwise the judge wont accept it on the day .... so I would be sending evidence of my gym membership for instance
I cant be for sure or not if I was driving the car, as I dont know the time of the ticket

[R0b]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

Unfortunately, there isn't much more you can do other than to reiterate what your defence says when you attend court.

You should make a note and bring copies to the court of correspondence requesting the information from CEL sincethe set aside has taken place. You could claim that they have ignored you on each occassion which has frustrated the matter because as it currently stands there is nothing to prove that there is a case to be heard. If for some reason CEL do turn up then and start bringing evidence then you should ask for an adjournment with permission to amnd your defence based on the evidence they have provided. If the judge does adjourn (or even strike out the case) then you should ask for your costs under CPR 27.14 given their unreasonable conduct throughout the claim due to the consistent failure to respond to your correspondence.

If the judge does adjourn you could politely ask the judge to make an unless order in relation to the documents they need to provie to you otherwise the case should be struck out. Things you may want to ask for could be:

- details of the alleged offence including the date, time and place

- evidence which proves the offence took place e.g. photos and/or signage in place (you may want to take photos too of the signage in the area in case they try to fudge it)

- copy of the contract which gives them authority to manage the car park (I assume they will say its commercially sensitive information and can't be supplid but you could resist by saying that there is no harm in providing a redacted version which removes and commercially sensitive information)

- any other information that you may need

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

@R0b

Thanks for that, gives me a little more confidence as I'm well out of my comfort zone

So ... I shall write to CEL yet again asking for detail of the claim to show the court I did try again
I wont send any of the Easygym info, just another copy of my defence to make sure they cant deny having it

Then if they appear at court with photographs or information that they have repeatedly failed to provide me with to try and bring the matter to an earlier conclusion I will do as you suggest

One question on what you said above, what was the section in bold type here meaning please: "If the judge does adjourn you could politely ask the judge to make an unless order in relation to the documents"

[R0b]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

Just looking at the order again, it says CEL must pay a hearing fee of £25, I don't know what the chances of them paying it will be but if they're ignoring you then they may also not pay the hearing fee. On. Therefore it may not even get to court, though you could try your hand at writing to the court (perhaps address it to Judge Findlay, since he reviewed the case) and asking for the case to be struck out as they have failed to pay and as such is sitting in limbo whilst prejudicing you as the limitation period clock has stopped whilst the claim is ongoing. The court though may say you need to make an application at your own cost, so it will be up to you whether you want to pay another fee. However I would think you could make a without notice application at a cost of £100 and request your application fees back, again citing their unreasonable behaviour plus costs - something to consider.

An unless order is simply an order by the court to say that unless the claimant does XYZ within X days, the claim will be struck out. So it is common to say that unless the Claimant provides the documents referred to in its particulars of claim within 14 days, the claim shall be struck out.

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

Just looking at the order again, it says CEL must pay a hearing fee of £25, I don't know what the chances of them paying it will be but if they're ignoring you then they may also not pay the hearing fee. On. Therefore it may not even get to court, though you could try your hand at writing to the court (perhaps address it to Judge Findlay, since he reviewed the case) and asking for the case to be struck out as they have failed to pay and as such is sitting in limbo whilst prejudicing you as the limitation period clock has stopped whilst the claim is ongoing. The court though may say you need to make an application at your own cost, so it will be up to you whether you want to pay another fee. However I would think you could make a without notice application at a cost of £100 and request your application fees back, again citing their unreasonable behaviour plus costs - something to consider.

An unless order is simply an order by the court to say that unless the claimant does XYZ within X days, the claim will be struck out. So it is common to say that unless the Claimant provides the documents referred to in its particulars of claim within 14 days, the claim shall be struck out.

I can only hope. The hearing fee is payable by 23 January so just after that I will call the court to see if it has been paid or not

Thanks again both for your help and support

[mystery1]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

Take a look at these cases. As yours is a bit of an unknown it might be a bit "here is a defence i could have".

Do the signs create a contract at all ?

http://nebula.wsimg.com/b84a6ffd1e35...&alloworigin=1

http://nebula.wsimg.com/c8348f3d7a15...&alloworigin=1



Are the signs clear and legible ?

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co...r-signage.html


Were you the driver or merely the registered keeper ?

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co...ladstoned.html CEL did not use protection of freedom compliant notice to keepers so only a driver could be liable.


Print them off so the judge can have a read. If the judge is minded to set aside and not dismiss the claim ask that the particulars of claim comply with cpr 16 and at least 14 days to file a defence.

M1

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

Thanks for that, had a read through and I will print them off although I'm told that the jusdge wont consider anything that hasnt also been sent to the claimant as well.

I'm assuming that CEL parking notices dont conform to POPLA ... I cant tell of course as Ive never received one.

Although I dont know for sure where the "offence" took place, I'm pretty sure on the day in question three people could have driven the car and I also know from an email from the present owner of my old place that he never received anything official for me (in the form of a parking notice). So I never had a notice put on my car (which I understand isnt required with cameras), I never received a notice in the post, and I'm not sure if I was driving the car when the original issue happened.

Thanks again for your input

[mystery1]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

Search google images (cel pcn) and see if you can find one from around that time.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/4/enacted

(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;




I would expect it to fail on at least that.


These should then allow you to point to a reasonable chance of a defence. Not 100% sure you need to send these beforehand, unlike the application etc, but you certainly could.

M1

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

[MENTION=5354]mystery1[/MENTION] - Heres one from one of the local homebase / EasyGym car parks
If they dont send out a parking charge by the looks of it they will automatically get the extra charges they mention, as the charge wouldnt be paid

[mystery1]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

They used to discontinue claims with those signs but that was before Beavis.

The protection of freedoms act only allows for the £100 from the keeper though. (if anything is due)

M1

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

[MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION] [MENTION=5354]mystery1[/MENTION]

I received a letter from the courts today saying the small claims hearing has been struck out and removed from the list due to the claiants failure to pay the hearing fee within the specified time.

Although I realise I should just sit back happily, they still owe me £255 for me getting the CCJ struck off and it's a matter of principle :-)

Do you think I should just let it rest, or can I actually do anything proactive

Many thanks