The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

CPR 6, Rule 6.9 is complying with service of the claim form - http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...les/part06#6.9

And I believe M1 means Practice Direction 16, Rule 7.5 - https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr.../pd_part16#6.1

As for the signature, you must signed the Defence as it is a requirement. You could print it out, sign and scan it back in then send to the court and the claimant.

Alternatively you could sign the defence electronically if you wish and if you google free electronic signatures there's plenty out there that you can use either by inserting it as an image or uploading the document and doing it online.

Be sure to send the email from an email address that could be identifiable as yourself and not something like funkywarrior@outlook.com as the other side might argue that an electronic signature is invalid and the send cannot be ascertained as being you. There has been some case law on electronic signatures and it has previously been accepted but you don't want to give them any scope to throw it out.

Also send a copy by post if that is possible, and yes you should send a copy to CEL, by email too if you can.

OK, I spoke to the Courts to check and a scanned signed document is fine, I'll put that in this afternoon. I'll probably post to Civil Enforcements unless I can find an email that isnt through their contact form on the site.

Just finally though, do I have to send in the draft order originally posted please

[R0b]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

No, the judge's order supercede's the draft order. Provided that a Defence is filed by the required date, the CCJ is set aside.

Presumably what happens after that is the case is then re-listed for another hearing which means no CCJ and either an opportunity to defend or to pay up and settle. But given the judge's bizarre order then who knows what might happen, it could even get struck out!

[mystery1]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...d_part07e#10.1

Signature

10 Any provision of the CPR which requires a document to be signed by any person is satisfied by that person entering their name on an online form.



M1

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

No, the judge's order supercede's the draft order. Provided that a Defence is filed by the required date, the CCJ is set aside.

Presumably what happens after that is the case is then re-listed for another hearing which means no CCJ and either an opportunity to defend or to pay up and settle. But given the judge's bizarre order then who knows what might happen, it could even get struck out!

We can but hope ....... however, I'm never that lucky :tinysmile_twink_t2:

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...d_part07e#10.1

Signature

10 Any provision of the CPR which requires a document to be signed by any person is satisfied by that person entering their name on an online form.



M1

Thanks for that

[R0b]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

@mystery1, I don't think that's the correct part of the CPR unless the Defence is filed online through MCOL. In this case, it requires to be filed at court and the correct section i believe is 5.3 https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...les/part05#5.3

Where any of these Rules or any practice direction requires a document to be signed, that requirement shall be satisfied if the signature is printed by computer or other mechanical means.

But that has never stopped them from arguing the Defence signature is not valid, just need to be prepared.

[mystery1]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

@mystery1, I don't think that's the correct part of the CPR unless the Defence is filed online through MCOL. In this case, it requires to be filed at court and the correct section i believe is 5.3 https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...les/part05#5.3



But that has never stopped them from arguing the Defence signature is not valid, just need to be prepared.

Perhaps,but would it cover filing by email?

Of course you could do it on paper, sign it scan it ... but that's a long way for a short cut.

M1

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

All lodged, just going to the post office to post next day delivery
Many thanks for your help, and I'll keep you informed of progress

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

Well ... it was never going to be easy I guess R0b

I've now received a notice of proposed allocation to the small claims track, saying it is now a defended claim.

They have sent me a small claims track N180 form to complete asking me to agree to the small claims mediation service and to fill in details of my availability

Is this normal? I guess this means I sit down with Civil Enforcements to argue the case ... whereas all I really want to do is get rid of this CCJ!

[R0b]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

No it's not usually normal, but I am confused myself. If you have made an application for a set aside of the CCJ then there should be a hearing on that, and if CEL wish to object then they should do so by providing a witness statement which sets out their reasons as to why the CCJ should not be set aside - have you received any of this?

I think another call to the court should be required to clarify, because the only other reason why I can think of you being sent the N180 form is if the court has already set aside the CCJ and relisted it

[mystery1]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

There was a hearing for the set aside and from that came the confusing order to which a defence was entered. Isn't that correct ?

If so, then allocation is the correct next step and the ccj has been set aside.

M1

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

No it's not usually normal, but I am confused myself. If you have made an application for a set aside of the CCJ then there should be a hearing on that, and if CEL wish to object then they should do so by providing a witness statement which sets out their reasons as to why the CCJ should not be set aside - have you received any of this?

I think another call to the court should be required to clarify, because the only other reason why I can think of you being sent the N180 form is if the court has already set aside the CCJ and relisted it

No I've received nothing other than this N180 form which was the response after putting in my defence
From what I found in google I have to go and sit in court infront of a judge with Civil Enforcement and specifically defend the parking fine .... which I cant because I still dont know what it is.

There was a hearing for the set aside and from that came the confusing order to which a defence was entered. Isn't that correct ?

If so, then allocation is the correct next step and the ccj has been set aside.

M1

Yes,there was a hearing that was attended by my representative where the judge said he would set aside the CCJ on condition of me makinga defence
I did that, and this is the result. I have had nothing to tell me that the CCJ has ben set aside though.

If I go to court then I can only tell the judge that I cant defend the alleged parking fine because I dont know what it is, although if CEL attend I assume they will just spring it upon me and I wont be able to defend it at such short notice anyway. In any xcase, it's been so long now its going to be difficult for me to defend anyway as even if they have a photograph of my car all I can say is that I didnt go over my parking time as Im always very careful not to. Thats not going to be acceptable to a judge as defence, I'd guess. Hopwever, they have never sent me notification of a parking fine and I have the owner of my old addresses email confirming he has never received anything

Ill try the court again by phone, but I know its just a call centre, not the actual court

[mystery1]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

You could ask for directions on the DQ that the claimant furnish you with the particulars of claim etc although it is astonishing that the court won't send these to you, as normally they will send a copy when asked. As for evidence, it is unusual in these cases to get it before the court ordered deadline (usually 14 days before trial) due to the small sums involved and the reluctance of anyone willing to pay £255 for an application to force disclosure at an earlier stage, having previously submitted a CPR 31.14 request.

CEL do not turn up to court in may cases, so hopefully won't in yours.

M1

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

You could ask for directions on the DQ that the claimant furnish you with the particulars of claim etc although it is astonishing that the court won't send these to you, as normally they will send a copy when asked. As for evidence, it is unusual in these cases to get it before the court ordered deadline (usually 14 days before trial) due to the small sums involved and the reluctance of anyone willing to pay £255 for an application to force disclosure at an earlier stage, having previously submitted a CPR 31.14 request.

CEL do not turn up to court in may cases, so hopefully won't in yours.

M1

One can only hope, but of course if they dont it will probably cost them £255
I'll let you know what the court call centre says tomorrow as there are big delays on the calls this afternoon

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

Good morning

Spoke to the call centre today and they tell me that the CCJ has been set aside, although no one told me. I'm now apparently dealing with the defence of the original issue as if the CCJ had never been issued.

The stupid thing is that if CEL actually took the trouble to respond to me in any way at all I could prepare something, but as it is it seems I will end up going to court with my only defence being I never knew anything about it and they never served me with anything or sent me a ticket notification. So I'm now concerned that if I go to court with such a flimsy defence, they will find for CEL and I will end up with costs!

[mystery1]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

I'm afraid without an application this is where we are. It is common amongst these scumbags to present a terrible claim. Some get struck out and some don't. All you can do is await their evidence and respond quickly to that.

M1