Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

[TikiJnr]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

Oh hang on maybe the point I've made is no3 not 4. I'm not sure. M1... Help! Lol!

[R0b]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

So I am skimming through,this thread briefly, was there an issue with the second witness statement? Did it contain anything important which the judge used to decide the case? Where did this photograph of numbered bays come into play as the photographs I have seen on here don't appear to show anything?

Did you raise the objection as to their particulars not giving sufficient details as to a cause of action? and Did the judge still accept the particulars or give any reasons why she decided to accept?

[TikiJnr]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

Okay so the second witness statement included the pcn, my appeal and their response to my appeal. I objected to the second witness statement because it was submitted 4 days before the trial. The court required everything to be submitted 14 days before. I referred to the Denton rule (thanks M1) which stated when judges consider this they should 1. Take into account how significant the breach... 4 days before so 10 days late is significant. 2. Any reason for the delay... There appears to be no good reason and the claimant could give no reason. 3. Whether the case should be adjourned to consider the evidence.... It would cost more to adjourn it than to award it to the claimant in any event.

She considered the breach not to be significant because she didn't believe the content of the witness statement amounted to much. So she refused to throw out the statement.

However in her judgment she said the reason she decided the particulars of claim were fine was because the second witness statement and my appeal proved I knew the details of the parking charge. Had that second witness statement been thrown out as it should have been then the POC would have supported nothing in the witness statement.

I could not see ANY numbers when I went to visit the site, and none of the photos of my car parked in the bay show any numbering nor do any of the photos contained in mine or her witness statement. She however turns up with photos of numbers on the floor. Never asked permission to use this evidence the judge never said a word. She just took it. Again rejected my objection. These photos were honestly nothjng more than a photo of a bit of pavement. Doesn't show it was the site, doesn't show well anything!

The judge in her judgement told the claimant in future the POC needed to be compliant. So why did my case get thrown out? I feel she has misused the law if that makes sense. The parking case was tenuous in my eyes but the claimant acted like a buffoon in terms of the rules and the judge couldn't have cared less.

[TikiJnr]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

I think maybe no6 too. How many errors can you overlook before saying no hang on you're taking the pee here, get out my court and bring me a proper case if you want to win it x

[R0b]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

Thanks Tiki, I'll try to take a look in more detail at some point today but might be best to wait and see if [MENTION=5354]mystery1[/MENTION] has anything further comments to add before doing anything. You still have a couple of weeks to go before the 21 days is up so there's not too much of a worry at the moment.

Based on what you said it does sound like the judge may have incorrectly applied the Denton guidelines. Filing an additional witness statement 4 days before trial is a bread of the Order and was done without permission of the court has previously been considered a significant or serious breach. Arguably it disrupts the conduct of litigation as you have not had much time to prepare any response and has been sprung on you at the last minute and put you at a disadvantage. The judge was therefore wrong to decide that it was not significant or serious, especially when they had already filed a witness statement presumably on time so there was no reason why it should have been served at the time as the initial one.

Courts have on occasions granted relief for late filing of witness statements but when the witness is not showing up to court, they have taken a more strict stance.

So there is a potential ground of argument if supported by case law, and presumably the other ground is the poor pleadings.

[TikiJnr]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

Thanks Rob. Definitely think M1 will have something to add even if it's just clarity. I'll continue to post when I rememeber things or hear anything, otherwise I'll forget bits and pieces. I don't expect anyone to jump on to reply, it's more just a log of what's going on. Thanks again.

[TikiJnr]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

Hi there

I've received a letter from the court saying basically the order states I pay x amount by 14th and permission to appeal refused. Is that all I'm expected to receive? If so she's not emailed me whatever she said she would. Also do I pay it and then appeal? If I don't will I get a ccj?

Thanks

[Kati]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

[MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION] [MENTION=5354]mystery1[/MENTION] ??

[R0b]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

Would be helpful to see a copy of the Order, redacted of course. Seems extremely harsh for the judge to order payment within 7 days instead of the usual 1 month!

You'd have to ask for a stay of the Order in your appeal application too, otherwise they can continue enforcement whilst appeal ongoing. If the Order also says that permission to appeal is just refused, technically it should specify that a further application can be made and to what level of judge it should be (in this case a circuit judge) under CPR 52.

I have a busy couple of days ahead so I could only take a proper look at this on Sunday but I think on the current basis an application for appeal needs to be made before 14 October to the court that heard the case. If you are still wanting to go ahead with this then the starting point is to begin filling out Form N164

[TikiJnr]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

Okay cool well it's Friday so Sunday is fine. Let me block out the stuff on the order and I'll send it to Kati for upload. It does say circuit judge. She's given me 14 days to pay. I've googled the judge I cannot find a single thing about her.

[R0b]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

Just be aware though an appeal does not stay an order of the Court and it is the Court's discretion and power to grant a stay pending appeal. It is usually done in the best interests of justice so for example if by paying the sums owed and it stifles you from being able to bring an appeal because you have no means to do so then they court may grant that but you have to give a reason on the application why you request a stay, otherwise you have to pay them and then if successful on appeal you can reclaim the amount back. The court can also impose conditions on the stay too if it wants to.

Usually though, the court will consider if there is a real propsect of a successful appeal when deciding whether to grant a stay of the Order. Also a point to note, there can be an appeal against the granting of an Order to stay as well.

[TikiJnr]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

I've sent the email to Kati. Do you mean they can argue about me asking to stay the claim? I will pay it then claim it back should I win the appeal if it's for the best x

[TikiJnr]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

I can do that form now that's simple enough but what do I need to go with it? Or is that form just on its own and the other stuff mentioned comes elsewhere?

[Kati]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

....

[TikiJnr]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

Thank you Kati x