Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

[Kati]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

[MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] [MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION] ... any help with appeals would be good here
[MENTION=2583]tiki[/MENTION]jr ... I'm so sorry. You did everything you could and more! That judge sounds like a right piece of work :sad: xx

[TikiJnr]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

Thanks guys. I did ask to appeal. She said no as it was her discretion on the CPR and the Denton test. I find it strange you ask that particular judge. How many are going to say yeah go on then, it's like admitting they might be wrong! I feel she was wrong to allow the second statement saying the evidence was not significant then used it in her judgement. The other guy from the case M1 sent me yesterday was in with her too and they came out with red hot faces not looking happy x

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I did manage to get the fee they claimed reduced though by 50 quid so not all lost x

[R0b]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

If that is the case, then she is wrong, because she should have outlined that she can refuse permission but you are also entitled to make an application to request permission to appeal. Did she go through the Denton test and then apply and give reasons why permission to appeal was refused, or was it a case of the short words you have described?

Permission to appeal does not stop with the judge presiding over the case, despite permission being refused you can still make the application in writing. Based on what you have said, it might be wise to try and obtain a copy of the transcript possibly at public expense which would allow you to adduce that evidence that the judge was wrong in error of law or fact and/or potentially not giving reasons for decision.

[TikiJnr]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

So the Denton bit she started talking about the second witness statement. I stopped her and said now I would like to ask this be struck out because it fails the Denton test. I handed her a copy of the vos case and referred her to paragraph 29 and I went through what each point meant and how it applies to the case. She accepted it then said she had discretion over it and decided not to strike out the witness statement as it did not introduce significant evidence. However she then said she would not throw the claim out based on the poor particulars of the claim because the ticket and appeal (which was witness statement 2!) showed I did know about the ticket and therefore although not ideal meant she could not find the POC to be insufficient.

That's how thay bit went. We scrapped for nearly 2 hours.

[TikiJnr]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

I asked her to appeal based on I believed she erred in fact and law. She said explain.

I said CPR 16 7.5. Again she said this was her discretion. Which I could not see discretion on the practice directions.

I then said Denton. She said again discretion.

She then said no appeal as there is no realistic chance of winning. I said I disagree she said she will sent me the crap to appeal to a circuit judge. She said did I know if I intended to do this. I said yes. She then said well I don't know if it's 14 or 21 days to appeal and said I'm not sure what happens with the payment if that happens, like if it's stayed or not. I've got no intention of paying just yet.

Then crack pot said oh you can call Gladstones to make payment. Gladstones who don't answer the phone or reply to emails you mean? As shown to the judge today.

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All she kept saying was her discretion. And she said she had sympathy with the signage because she's done it herself bit still believed theirs was clear. Even though it doesn't face you. The sainsbury one is right in front of you.

[TikiJnr]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

When will a transcript be available? I've tried reading about this but none of it is very clear. It says the judgement is not stayed automatically on appeal, so how do you do that because there's no point in paying something you're appealing? X

[R0b]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

Well she doesn't sound like she is a nice judge, and even more worrying if she doesn't know the timescale for appealing! Normally, the cases are audio recorded and you would need to contact the court to see how you go about this. There are certain companies assigned to each court who will transcribe the audio recording at a price which is where it can become expensive. The procedure it so apply through a specific form and send to the court and depending on soon you want it depends on the cost.

If you are looking to get it at public expense because you can't afford the cost, then you need to do this at the same time as making your appeal. You can make reference to paragraph 4.3 PD52 of the CPR and explain your reasons for granting transcript, you could also state that a transcript is necessary to adduce evidence as to the judge's decision and in particular the way it handled the case as well as citing reasons why the judge erred. Yu do have to spell out that you are seeking an order of the transcript to be produced at the public expense.

[TikiJnr]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

Okay thank you. I wasn't allowed to speak during her closing and judgement. But having said she will allow the witness statement as she said it's not vital evidence. She then used that evidence to make her final judgement. So I think she was wrong. She also threw out the CPR 16 7.5 which I can't find anywhere where the judge has discretion on that? The POC are either compliant or not. It must have been being recorded the way she spoke as if thinking out loud. She had no clue about appealing at all! She just warned there was a strict time limit. She then looked for a form to hand to me and said she couldn't find one whilst checking her mobile phone and saying she was aware of the time. Not my fault they booked two people in the same time slot. So she's going to email it to me?

[R0b]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

Ultimately, the decision is yours to take and whether you want to pay the fees, however you should note that alot of people are put off by the formal requirements for an appeal as well as putting together the paperwork for the application so something to bear in mind. If it doesn't follow the correct procedures, then you could put yourself at an instant disadvantage.

[TikiJnr]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

I guess I have to wait for whatever she sends on Monday? So far I'm not finding any real info about appealing. But I think the transcript alone with her saying this evidence is not significant then basically hanging her decision on it has got to be something? She referred to it throughout the parking case too. X

[TikiJnr]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

What happens if you win an appeal? Do you get a retrial?

[mystery1]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

She accepted I was not the driver,I really wasn't. But effectively said that was my problem.

This is a big point here. How did she explain you were liable for someone else's parking ?

If you win the appeal, you win.

M1

[TikiJnr]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

She just said as keeper it's my responsibility. She asked why I didn't name the driver, I said there is more than one person on the insurance policy and it was my choice not to name the driver.

Dare I even ask this without being shot down. What happens if I refuse to pay?

[TikiJnr]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

I've just read this

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

And it says like the ticket does I had the choice to name the driver or pay the fine myself.

The only thing I couldn't argue yesterday was the whole it was a penalty and exceeds maximum by any trade association bit of my defence because I didn't have a clue. The judge never even took my folder, she wanted my copies!!

Do they have discretion over cpr? The 16 7.5 and the Denton she said that was her discretion. I feel if these rules are writren for judges and they ignore them then they don't have much respect for the law in which they are meant to work and uphold. I feel the way she upheld their case I could write to pcm saying this is a contract that if you refuse to reply to this letter it's £500 and if you do it's £300!! That's about as much clout as their contract had and it was accepted x

[mystery1]

Re: Parking Control Management/Gladstones Court Claim

Judges do have discretion but should use it properly otherwise it's a free for all and open to corruption.

In what capacity did Philpot present the case ? Solicitor, claimant lay representative etc ?

M1