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should I just pay £60?

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  • should I just pay £60?

    Heyy Mystery1, I got a ticket at stockport peel centre, I challenged the fine internally which got rejected, I have appealed with ias and it got rejected, I basically wrote, I would like to appeal this charge on the following grounds: (im thinking I should just pay it as it was kinda my fault since i didnt have a ticket, could you please have a look over this)

    1) The charges are penalties and not a contractual charge, breach of contract or a trespass. They are not a genuine pre estimate of loss either.

    2) In order to form a contract the signs need to be clear so that they must be seen by an average person. They were not. There was no breach of contract.

    3) Excel Parking do not hold sufficient interest in the land to offer a motorist a contract to park. They have no locus standi.

    4) Excel Parking have failed to adhere to the BPA code of practice.

    (Please note I have offered to pay the original cost of a ticket and although I would argue there is a genuine pre estimated loss of zero, since the carpark was operating nowhere near 100%, and I did not occupy the space of sombody else who did read the sign and could have paid, I am still happy to pay the original cost of a ticket, which according to their website stands at £1.30)


    I attached a microsoft word document that talked about these points further,

    The adjudicators reply was:

    Having considered the evidence supplied by the Operator, I am satisfied that a prima facie case has been established.

    Dealing the points raised by the Appellant:

    The Supreme Court in ParkingEye v Beavis has established that in cases such as this, a contract exists between the Appellant and Operator, whereby the Appellant is granted a contractual licence to park their car in the car park on the terms of the notice posted at the entrance, which he accepted by entering the site.

    Having considered the evidence in relation to the signage, the signs are large, prominent and legible, so that any reasonable user of the car park would be aware of their existence and nature, and would have a fair opportunity to read them if he or she wished to do so.

    It can never be a defence to a claim in contract law to say "I did not read the terms", so long as the existence of those terms is reasonably advertised.

    The £100 is regarded as a charge for contravening the terms of the contractual licence.

    The charge is not a penalty. The reason is that although the Operator was not liable to suffer loss as a result of overstaying motorists, it had a legitimate interest in charging them which extended beyond the recovery of any loss.

    Deterrence is not penal if there is a legitimate interest in influencing the conduct of the contracting party which is not satisfied by the mere right to recover damages for breach of contract.

    Whether the Operator has a contract with the landowner to issue parking charges at the location is irrelevant.

    This is because the parking charge arises out of a relationship in contract between the Operator and the Appellant. The Operator is not acting as the landowner's agent, rather they are are principal in the contract which the Appellant entered into by parking at the location.

    In accordance with the terms and conditions of the contract between the Operator and the Appellant, by failing to purchase a pay and display ticket the Appellant agreed to pay the parking charge.

    The Supreme Court considered that a similar charge in ParkingEye v Beavis did not infringe the 1999 Regulations. In their opinion, the term imposing the £85 charge was not unfair. The term does not exclude any right which the consumer may be said to enjoy under the general law or by statute.

    Motorists could hardly avoid reading the notice and were under no pressure to accept its terms.

    Finally, the Appellant has failed to provide any evidence of a brach of the relevant code. Which in any event is irrelevant to the lawfulness of the parking charge in question.

    For the reasons stated above, the appeal is dismissed.



    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: should I just pay £60?

    Absent any keeper liability issues you might be correct. Interesting response from the rather biased IAS there mind.

    The Supreme Court in ParkingEye v Beavis has established that in cases such as this, a contract exists between the Appellant and Operator, whereby the Appellant is granted a contractual licence to park their car in the car park on the terms of the notice posted at the entrance, which he accepted by entering the site.
    Surely that should be "can exist" since the supreme court isn't going to know if every car park in the country has a contract that allows highway robbery.

    Whether the Operator has a contract with the landowner to issue parking charges at the location is irrelevant.
    Really, lol. Why does the IPC COP require it then (as does the BPA COP) ?

    Finally, the Appellant has failed to provide any evidence of a brach of the relevant code. Which in any event is irrelevant to the lawfulness of the parking charge in question.
    Independent my arse.




    It remains to be seen how courts apply Beavis to paid car parks and the peel centre is renowned for garbage signs but do you fancy court ? (do they?)

    It might not be a lost cause but neither will it be easy to defeat them if they try court.

    M1

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    • #3
      Re: should I just pay £60?

      Im thinking I might as well pay it and get it over with, what do you think? Also another thing is, about a week after this time, I visited peel centre to give my cousin a lift (whose car got stolen which was the reason I had to give them a lift the first and second time) however I did not buy a ticket that time either, do you think once I pay this, they will send that ticket through aswell? Not sure what to do right now, what would you advise?

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      • #4
        Re: should I just pay £60?

        There should be enough time to get in and decide whether or not to stay having read the signs. If you were under 10 minutes you SHOULD be ok.

        M1

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: should I just pay £60?

          Ok, I think the second time I was there for a little while and thats why I may not have got a fine, however I have paid the £60 for the first time, but after re-reading their letter, it gave me 2 options, either pay £60 now, or appeal, but at the bottom it says "It is important you note that if you wish to appeal to the IAS, the discount offer will no longer apply and the full amount of £100 will be pursued" I did not read this bit, I find it discusting how these parking companies make their money through fines and penalties, im up for picking a fight with them, I mean the most they can get out of me is £100 right? I was thinking a good defence is an even better offence, and it is only inevitable that they will send me some more letters asking for full payment, but when they do, I think it would be a good idea to say, I have paid your fine(£60 of which I have the reference number), if you contact me again in any way shape or form you agree to repay this fine less the original cost of the ticket (£1.80), damages for stress, (the time I spent researching my appeal x my normal hourly rate at work of £8.50), lost wages if attending a court, or a flat rate £1000, whichever is greater, and add on any other costs I can add to it, btw I dont fear going to court, even if I lose its only another £40 right?, and as you said, I dont feel like the IAS was Independant, I know by paying the fine I accepted the responsibilty/blame but if it goes to court do you think I could get some money from the fine since the GPEL of earnings was arguabally £0, since the carpark was operating nowhere near 100%?

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          • #6
            Re: should I just pay £60?

            You have no appeal options left. You can ignore and see if the do court and hope they don't. If they do it'll be more like an extra £100 or so if you lose. Get pictures of the signs in case you need them if you opt to ignore.

            M1

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            • #7
              Re: should I just pay £60?

              How can it be an extra £100, I thought the maximum they could charge me was £100?

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              • #8
                Re: should I just pay £60?

                possibly court fees' solicitors fee's etc, attendance costs if it goes to hearing etc.
                #staysafestayhome

                Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: should I just pay £60?

                  Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
                  possibly court fees' solicitors fee's etc, attendance costs if it goes to hearing etc.

                  Indeed.

                  M1

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                  • #10
                    Re: should I just pay £60?

                    Okay fine, it is only a matter of time until I get another letter and when it comes, I will pay the rest of the £40, however on an unrelated note, I think my phone has been hacked, I think sombodys been reading my messages and replying on my behalf, without my authority and without me knowing, yesterday my phone was in my pocket the whole time and I recieved 2 texts to which I did not reply, but it looked like I said "i'll call you later," what should I do about this?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: should I just pay £60?

                      Hello Mystery1, I paid the £100 from before, but remember when I said I was up for a fight with these guys, opportunity comes knocking, I have now recieved another parking charge notice, however this time it was not me who was the driver, I am thinking of replying by saying, "you have made an error by issuing this parking charge notice to me, please do not send me any more unenforcable invoices/letters, if you do try to contact me in any way shape or form, you unconditionally agree to pay me £100 for the original letter plus £100 for each additional letter/form of correspondance." what do you think? p.s. i have read other forms where sombody else was also not the driver and refused to give the name of the driver, and you said the parking company made empty threats to send debt collectors, right?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: should I just pay £60?

                        If they meet the requirements of the protection of freedoms act 2012 schedule 4 they can chase the keeper.

                        If it's the peel centre again, you'll never win an appeal. Just make sure the driver isn't identified as keeper liability is probably screwed up.

                        M1

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                        • #13
                          Re: should I just pay £60?

                          what is keeper liability?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: should I just pay £60?

                            http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

                            M1

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: should I just pay £60?

                              Okay thanks for that, I have read through that and have a better understanding if it, on point 6 it says, that link it says,

                              6. The Creditor or its agent must have made application to the DVLA for your name and address either
                              • NOT EARLIER than 28 days after the vehicle was parked (where a Notice to Driver was issued); or
                              • NOT LATER than 14 days after the vehicle was parked (where a Notice to Driver was not issued)

                              The contravention date was 09/11/2015 but the issue date of notice was 23/11/2015, this is 14 days, have they gone above their timesacle? and if not should I stall until 28 days and not give the name of the driver, then it will expire?

                              Comment

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