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PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

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  • #16
    Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

    "They are only permitted to seize goods belonging to the debtor and they know - or should know - that they cannot lawfully levy distress on goods belonging to any third party. What bailiffs tend to rely upon is the (foolish) idea that any motor car seen near the debtor's residence could be assumed to belong to the debtor - and then they challenge the debtor to prove the motor car does not belong to them!

    This is - of course - utter nonsense
    "

    Absolutely agree CC

    They will rely on the old Chestnut "it was near the debtors premises so Observer v Gordon [1983] 2 ALL ER 945,949 applies, COBBLERS

    however the Sheriffs famous from the TV have this on their website, so perhaps they need a mild tolchock or a challenge, as they claim the status quo is just that which we have said is not so. Debtor MUST prove non ownership, as in provide a V5 for a random motor.

    http://thesheriffsoffice.com/article...rove_ownership Quoted below:

    "The case of Gonsky v Durrell [1918] stated that the onus of proof is always on the debtor to show goods are exempt and - under common law distraint, "by exercise of reason and judgment on the facts capable of being found on enquiry, a reasonable person would have to conclude that the goods in possession of the debtor were fully owned by that person".

    This is further reinforced by the case of Observer Ltd v Gordon (1983), which determined that it is “not reasonable” to expect the enforcement officer to make enquiries as to ownership.
    The case rules that, if the officer has a reasonable belief that the goods listed on the WPA are owned by the debtor, then they can be seized. The ruling applies to items within the premises, as well as motor vehicles.
    The onus is, therefore, most definitely on the debtor to prove that he does not own the goods. Keeping receipts or copies is most definitely advisable, particularly if there is a subsequent third party claim".

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

      One might wonder when this kakistocracy plans to legalise burglary, except that we already know - it's on April 6th!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

        Thank you CleverClogs and bizzybob,
        I really appreciate your help.

        "No, but they should have left a Form 7 Notice of Seizure detailing the good(s) seized and bearing the name of the bailiff, along with the date and time."

        Nothing was left except a 'Warrent of Execution' with the date and amount owed (£420 jumped up from £110) hand written and instructions to call him on his mobile ( which I have not and will never do).

        I live in a block of flats with no drive or car park so he would have had the entire street to pick a vehicle from if that is what has been done however no other paperwork was left and this was 2 weeks ago now.
        Should I just wait and see if anything else happens or contact the council regardless?

        Again thank you for your help
        GG

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

          Originally posted by gumtreegirl View Post
          Should I just wait and see if anything else happens or contact the council regardless?
          You do need to chase this up.

          Send a letter - by email and by Recorded Delivery - to Collect Services to get a breakdown of the fees.

          Use letter 1 from the "Useful Letters" page at http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...Useful-Letters In particular, you need to know on which vehicle or on what other goods they claim to have levied distress, when and which bailiff was involved.

          If Collect Services do not comply with the request or otherwise play at Silly Buggers, you'll then have to take it up with the council - Mr Whitehouse would be the chap to ask.

          It would also be wise to ask the council how much money from your payment they have received - if anything - and if the Warrant of Execution is still live.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

            Thank you Cleverclogs.
            Has anything actually been levied though? No paperwork was left saying it had been.
            I have the name of the bailiff and the date. I will look at that letter and also email the council thank you.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

              Originally posted by bizzybob View Post
              "They are only permitted to seize goods belonging to the debtor and they know - or should know - that they cannot lawfully levy distress on goods belonging to any third party. What bailiffs tend to rely upon is the (foolish) idea that any motor car seen near the debtor's residence could be assumed to belong to the debtor - and then they challenge the debtor to prove the motor car does not belong to them!

              This is - of course - utter nonsense
              "

              Absolutely agree CC

              They will rely on the old Chestnut "it was near the debtors premises so Observer v Gordon [1983] 2 ALL ER 945,949 applies, COBBLERS

              however the Sheriffs famous from the TV have this on their website, so perhaps they need a mild tolchock or a challenge, as they claim the status quo is just that which we have said is not so. Debtor MUST prove non ownership, as in provide a V5 for a random motor.

              http://thesheriffsoffice.com/article...rove_ownership Quoted below:

              "The case of Gonsky v Durrell [1918] stated that the onus of proof is always on the debtor to show goods are exempt and - under common law distraint, "by exercise of reason and judgment on the facts capable of being found on enquiry, a reasonable person would have to conclude that the goods in possession of the debtor were fully owned by that person".

              This is further reinforced by the case of Observer Ltd v Gordon (1983), which determined that it is “not reasonable” to expect the enforcement officer to make enquiries as to ownership.
              The case rules that, if the officer has a reasonable belief that the goods listed on the WPA are owned by the debtor, then they can be seized. The ruling applies to items within the premises, as well as motor vehicles.
              The onus is, therefore, most definitely on the debtor to prove that he does not own the goods. Keeping receipts or copies is most definitely advisable, particularly if there is a subsequent third party claim".
              I agree with your analysis about the statements on The Sheriff's Office website being "cobblers". It is one drawn-out excuse to justify global levying and a can't-be-arsed attitude to carry out proper checks to ensure what they proposing to seize is not third-party goods. It is sorely tempting to tell the buggers to go play with the lion featured on their website.
              Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

                That would be cruel to the lion.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

                  Originally posted by CleverClogs View Post
                  That would be cruel to the lion.
                  True. But can you imagine the looks on their faces when you shout, "Here, kitty, kitty," and the lion comes bounding towards them? :grin:
                  Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

                    Or a guy dressed as Wyatt Earp offers to stick the smooth shiny barrel of his Buntline Special up the Sheriff's posterior. Then the rest of the Village People jump out from behind a bush, to offer them a place in the band because their shiny heads and black flak jacket looks... well it rhymes with may!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Please Help Bailiffs Taking Car for Fees

                      Hi there,
                      Thank you so much in advance for any help.


                      Long story short I received a parking ticket as the machine wasn't working, it swallowed my money and gave no ticket. As I went to get more money I returned to my car to see traffic warden walking away. No ticket on car but wrote to council with pictures to explain about the machine anyway.


                      Heard nothing for months.


                      Next thing is a delivered letter from a neighbour with slightly wrong address from Collect Services saying I owed them £120 and the case had been to court???
                      I hadn't got any other letters in the post and probably because of the address. I checked with the DVLA and they have it slightly wrong on their system - it's not easy to find.


                      I filed an out of time form and it came back rejected.


                      I then received a hand delivered Warrant Of Execution for Unpaid Penalty Charge for £420.34 (was out when they came round). I then panicked and for right or for wrong (I know it was wrong now) I paid the £120 to Collect Services.


                      I heard nothing since and then 2 days ago I come home to a green hand delivered Notice Of Intended Seizure Of Goods And Inventory letter. The only thing listed is my car. The price is now £223.90 The number to phone for a credit/debit card payment is a moblie number which I refuse to call.
                      The wording on the green letter is TAKE NOTICE: Thay by virtue of Authority..... etc etc Is the word Thay a spelling error or actual old fashioned wording? Also he wrote 2013 in the date then wrote 4 over the top.


                      Anyway please help as I have no idea what to do now. It sounds like this is the bailiff wanting his fees and I thought they couldn't levy on your goods to pay their fees??
                      Thanks so much in advance
                      H

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Please Help Bailiffs Taking Car for Fees

                        ....
                        Last edited by gumtreegirl; 20th March 2014, 11:40:AM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Parking Ticket Bailiff Please Help

                          ....
                          Last edited by gumtreegirl; 20th March 2014, 11:37:AM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

                            Hello me again, thank you so much for your help so far. Can I just give you an update of the situation -


                            Long story short I received a parking ticket as the machine wasn't working, it swallowed my money and gave no ticket. As I went to get more money I returned to my car to see traffic warden walking away. No ticket on car but wrote to council with pictures to explain about the machine anyway.


                            Heard nothing for months.


                            Next thing is a delivered letter from a neighbour with slightly wrong address from Collect Services saying I owed them £120 and the case had been to court???
                            I hadn't got any other letters in the post and probably because of the address. I checked with the DVLA and they have it slightly wrong on their system - it's not easy to find.


                            I filed an out of time form and it came back rejected.


                            I then received a hand delivered Warrant Of Execution for Unpaid Penalty Charge for £420.34 (was out when they came round). I then panicked and for right or for wrong (I know it was wrong now) I paid the £120 to Collect Services.


                            I heard nothing since and then 2 days ago I come home to a green hand delivered Notice Of Intended Seizure Of Goods And Inventory letter. The only thing listed is my car. The price is now £223.90 The number to phone for a credit/debit card payment is a moblie number which I refuse to call.
                            The wording on the green letter is TAKE NOTICE: Thay by virtue of Authority..... etc etc Is the word Thay a spelling error or actual old fashioned wording? Also he wrote 2013 in the date then wrote 4 over the top.


                            Anyway please help as I have no idea what to do now. It sounds like this is the bailiff wanting his fees and I thought they couldn't levy on your goods to pay their fees??
                            I have never seen the bailiff as I have been out every time they have or say they have called and I have never signed anything.


                            Thanks so much in advance
                            H

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Please Help Bailiffs Taking Car for Fees

                              Why was your out of time rejected?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Please Help Bailiffs Taking Car for Fees

                                Thanks ploddertom, they gave no reason. Is there a template letter I can use to stop them coming and clamping my car?

                                Comment

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