PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

[gumtreegirl]

Hi there,
Thank you in advance for any help on this matter -

In October last year I received a letter from Collect Services with a warrant of execution. I immediately rang them and was advised to call Northampton and fill in an Out Of Time form which I did and emailed back the same day before 4pm so as to have the matter processed the same day. The reasons I gave were exactly as follows. Excuse the short sentences - the box had limited characters.

FAULTY MACHINE TOOK MONEY ISSUED NO TICKET. WENT TO DADS TO GET MORE MONEY. BACK TO CAR NO TICKET ON CAR BUT SAW TRAFFIC WARDEN WALKING AWAY. RANG COUNCIL JUST INCASE, ANSWERPHONE SAYS TO APPLY IN WRITING. SENT LETTER WITH PHOTOS OF FAULTY MACHINE JUST INCASE, NO REPLY SO THOUGHT END OF MATTER. RECIEVE BAILIFF LETTER 2 DAYS AGO FROM A NEIGHBOUR AS WRONG ADDRESS ON LETTER. RANG BAILIFFS TOLD THEM NO TICKET ON CAR THEY SAID THERE WOULDN’T HAVE BEEN IT WAS A CAMERA. RANG COUNCIL TO SEE WHY SUDDENLY GONE TO BAILIFF THEY SAID THEY HAD SENT OUT 3 LETTERS PREVIOUSLY. IF THEY SENT TO SAME ADDRESS AS BAILIFF USED THEN EXPLAINS WHY I DIDN’T RECEIVE THEM AS WRONG ADDRESS ** ********AY EAST NOT JUST *******AY.

The letter from the tribunal services was still addressed incorrectly with RO instead of ROAD and still no EAST. A neighbour delivered this too.
The application was refused with no reason and to contest I would have had to pay £40 which I did not have at the time - I am self employed on a low income.

I heard nothing more and that was in November.
Today I return from working away for 1 month to find a Warrent of Execution hand delivered through the door dated 23/01/2014 with the Amount Due at £420.34 saying to avoid further action to call this person on their mobile.
In a panic I paid this morning by bacs the £110 from the previous letter even though I still do not feel I should be paying at all from the very beginning - please correct me if I am wrong. However even so to jump from £110 to £420 in one go is way over the 28% and £11 letter fee if they are applicable in this case?

I have parked my car a few streets away even though this is obviously not a long term solution but I need it as I am self employed.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Nothing like this has ever happened before and I am worried.

Thank you.

[gumtreegirl]

PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

Hi there,
Thank you in advance for any help on this matter -

In October last year I received a letter from Collect Services with a warrant of execution. I immediately rang them and was advised to call Northampton and fill in an Out Of Time form which I did and emailed back the same day before 4pm so as to have the matter processed the same day. The reasons I gave were exactly as follows. Excuse the short sentences - the box had limited characters.

FAULTY MACHINE TOOK MONEY ISSUED NO TICKET. WENT TO DADS TO GET MORE MONEY. BACK TO CAR NO TICKET ON CAR BUT SAW TRAFFIC WARDEN WALKING AWAY. RANG COUNCIL JUST INCASE, ANSWERPHONE SAYS TO APPLY IN WRITING. SENT LETTER WITH PHOTOS OF FAULTY MACHINE JUST INCASE, NO REPLY SO THOUGHT END OF MATTER. RECIEVE BAILIFF LETTER 2 DAYS AGO FROM A NEIGHBOUR AS WRONG ADDRESS ON LETTER. RANG BAILIFFS TOLD THEM NO TICKET ON CAR THEY SAID THERE WOULDN’T HAVE BEEN IT WAS A CAMERA. RANG COUNCIL TO SEE WHY SUDDENLY GONE TO BAILIFF THEY SAID THEY HAD SENT OUT 3 LETTERS PREVIOUSLY. IF THEY SENT TO SAME ADDRESS AS BAILIFF USEDTHEN EXPLAINS WHY I DIDN’T RECEIVE THEM AS WRONG ADDRESS ** ********AY EAST NOT JUST *******AY.

The letter from the tribunal services was still addressed incorrectly with RO instead of ROAD and still no EAST. A neighbour delivered this too.
The application was refused with no reason and to contest I would have had to pay £40 which I did not have at the time - I am self employed on a low income.

I heard nothing more and that was in November.
Today I return from working away for 1 month to find a Warrent of Execution hand delivered through the door dated 23/01/2014 with the Amount Due at £420.34 saying to avoid further action to call this person on their mobile.
In a panic I paid this morning by bacs the £110 from the previous letter even though I still do not feel I should be paying at all from the very beginning - please correct me if I am wrong. However even so to jump from £110 to £420 in one go is way over the 28% and £11 letter fee if they are applicable in this case?

I have parked my car a few streets away even though this is obviously not a long term solution but I need it as I am self employed.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Nothing like this has ever happened before and I am worried.

Thank you.

[dementedfeline]

Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

The first question to answer: is your address correct on your V5 (logbook)? Does it say XXX East Road or just XXX Road?

The council should have sent PCN etc to address on the V5.

Second question: do you still have a copy of the letter you sent to the council and the photos? Did THAT have your correct address on it?

Third - first thing Monday morning you need to phone TEC (Traffic Enforcement Centre) on 01604 619450. You will need the PCN number. You need to ask them if a warrant of execution has been issued against that PCN and if so when and to what address. Then ask them if it has ever been REISSUED - and if so when and to what address. Ask them ever so nicely to confirm this info by email.

If the warrant of execution was not issued/has not been reissued to your CORRECT address, then there is hope.

Please report back here with the info.


df

[CleverClogs]

Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

As it seems obvious that Collect Services has done the usual trick of levying distress on any motor-car they saw near your house and then adding one or more "attendance to remove" fees as if they had a valid levy in place, the first step must surely be to get a breakdown of the fees they have imposed. Use the first letter from the "Useful Letters" page at http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...Useful-Letters

It would help me to know which council is involved, as I may then be able to find the email address of its leader and/or Chief Executive.

[gumtreegirl]

Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

Hi DF
Thank you so much for your help. I didn't realise that the address is actually wrong on the log book - my bad, so I guess they have done nothing wrong there. I will call DVLA to adjust this. I called them and she said Oct 16th and the address was without the East part which is the same as the log book but where it should say ROAD, which it does on the log book, she said she thinks it says PLACE on her system. I have been given an address to email to ask for the info so I will do this now. She said it was not reissued, even though I sent the correct address on the Out of Time form.

Thank you again in advance.
H

[gumtreegirl]

Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

Hi CleverClogs,
Thank you for your reply. My car was no-where near my house as I was away with work which is why I missed the bailiff in the first place. I have not spoken to them let alone have they levyed any sort of distress on anything.
It is Kingston council. Am I correct in thinking no fee can be charged if there is no levy made?

I will email them now with that letter.
Thank you.

[gumtreegirl]

Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

Sorry DF in answer to your question yes I still have a copy of the letter and the photos and it had the council parking shop address on it.

[dementedfeline]

Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

ok, the only way i think you can approach this is to google Operational Guidance to Local Authorities: Parking Policy and Enforcement Traffic Management Act 2004 as you have (inadvertently) stuffed yourself on the OOT / review of refusal.

Then WRITE to council (you could also email first), (possibly hand deliver and get receipt) with the initial background about the machine and your phone call/letter (include copy and point out it has your correct address on it). emphasise no response from council.

refer them to 10.68 of Op Guidance

and also 10.69

and 11.4

you could offer to pay the cost of the original ticket at the discount to show willing.

also - google and read local government ombudsman and bexley council - also involved incorrect address at DVLA.

also inform them that bailiff is trying to enforce at address other than that on warrant which is NOT allowed (tell them TEC have confirmed that there is no warrant live for your correct address) and remind them they are vicariously responsible for actions of their bailiffs. ask them to call off bailiffs while case being considered.

oh - and if neighbour would write and sign a letter confirming misdelivery, that would be nice - but not essential at the moment.

pop back here with a draft letter if you like. although you might want to get ball rolling by calling council first and asking if they will put bailiff on hold because they don't have a valid warrant.

also - DON'T let bailiff in if he comes back.

also - check national standards for enforcement agents - do you fit any of the vulnerable categories?

(BTW, am NOT an expert but have been involved in a similar scenario)

the other thing you could consider is getting in touch with bailiffadviceonline - £10 for an email answer or premium phone line, but if you do, make sure sheila understands that address at dvla has been wrong from start, NOT that you moved after the PCN and before all the other stuff.

[CleverClogs]

Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

It is Kingston council.

But which Kingston? Kingston and Surbiton, Kingston upon Thames, Kingston on Hull?

Am I correct in thinking no fee can be charged if there is no levy made?

Not for PCN enforcement, as some lawful fees may be charged.

Please see http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...rking-Offences

[gumtreegirl]

Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

Thank you,
It's Thames.
I read the post re. fees and I calculate debt asked for in previous letter £120 + £11.20 letter fee plus £33.60 (28% of £120) fee is £164.80. Where has £420 come from. I paid the original £120 (rightly or wrongly) by bank transfer yesterday so the rest is just fees which they are not able to claim by taking your good so I gather?
Thanks again for your help.

[gumtreegirl]

Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

Thank you DF,
I will draft an email and post it here. I certainly won't let them in if they come back. However I paid the £120 from the previous letter yesterday by bank transfer (rightly or wrongly) as I panicked. The rest of the money is his fees which I gather he can not levy on? Would I get this money back or should I just tell the council I have paid it?
Thanks again

[CleverClogs]

Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

It's Thames.

Kingston on Thames

Director of Finance
Mr Leigh Whitehouse leigh.whitehouse@rbk.kingston.gov.uk Tel: 020 8547 5570

Chief Executive
Mr Bruce McDonald bruce.mcdonald@rbk.kingston.gov.uk Tel: 020 8547 5150

Interim Director of Learning and Children's Services (he just seemed curiously appropriate, as he may be able to read)
Mr Nick Whitfield nick.whitfield@rbk.kingston.gov.uk Tel: 020 8547 5220

(source - http://directory.londoncouncils.gov....ston/officers/)

CEO's pay:

As at January 2013, the pay scale for the Chief Executive post is £156,726 - £178,341 per year (unchanged since April 2008). The national conditions of service are that the Chief Executive contributes 7.5 per cent of his salary to the local government pension scheme.

In some years the Chief Executive also receives election expenses as Deputy Returning Officer when general, local or European elections occur but these are not a regular feature of pay. There is no performance related pay or bonus.

The Chief Executive receives no other form of income.

(source: http://www.kingston.gov.uk/info/2001...56/our_staff/2)
Poor chap!

I read the post re. fees and I calculate debt asked for in previous letter £120 + £11.20 letter fee plus £33.60 (28% of £120) fee is £164.80.

It's actually a bit more.

Letter fee : £11.20 + VAT = £ 13.44
Add to debt - £ 133.44
28% = 37.37
Total = £ 170.81

Where has £420 come from.

It will be the usual mix of lawful fees, unlawful fees, inappropriate fees and wholly invented fees. They've probably made a constructive or "drive-by" levy on a motor car you have never owned but which they will claim they saw near your house - and they'll have charged a levy fee for that. Then they'll claim an "attendance to remove" fee, for attendance with a tiny van to remove the motor car that does not belong to you and, on finding that their Berlingo is too small, summoning a car transporter to take away a vehicle that, in all probability, is no longer there anyway.

I paid the original £120 (rightly or wrongly) by bank transfer yesterday

To whom was the payment made?

so the rest is just fees which they are not able to claim by taking your good so I gather?

They think they can.

[gumtreegirl]

Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

Thanks a lot Cleverclogs,

I made the payment to Collect Services - the collection agency who put the bailiff letter through the door. Do I not have to sign some paperwork in order for a levy to be made? Surely I would not have to pay the fees on a levy of a vehicle that isn't even mine if that is what they have done - which I believe they are not allowed to do.
I will email Mr Whitehouse tomorrow thank you so much for that information.

[bizzybob]

Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

No you do not have to pay any fees associated by an unlawful levy made on third party goods or a car not owned by yourself. As CC alludes they would drive by, take a random car index number, even a Scania 15 metre rig if it was near your home, then return with a Berlingo to to the 44 tonne truck and trailer, and add an attending to remove fee that would be unlawful, but they would hope you know none of this.

[CleverClogs]

Re: PCN wrong address and bailiffs warrant of execution

Thanks a lot Cleverclogs,

You are most welcome, as I consider it an honour and privilege to help whomever I can.

I made the payment to Collect Services - the collection agency who put the bailiff letter through the door.

I had guessed you'd done that, but sought confirmation.

They should pass that money on to the council without taking any of their fees but, as we know that they're a bunch of rogues, they may just take your payment from the inflated sum they are demanding and pay nothing to the council.

Do I not have to sign some paperwork in order for a levy to be made?

No, but they should have left a Form 7 Notice of Seizure detailing the good(s) seized and bearing the name of the bailiff, along with the date and time.

Surely I would not have to pay the fees on a levy of a vehicle that isn't even mine if that is what they have done - which I believe they are not allowed to do.

They are only permitted to seize goods belonging to the debtor and they know - or should know - that they cannot lawfully levy distress on goods belonging to any third party. What bailiffs tend to rely upon is the (foolish) idea that any motor car seen near the debtor's residence could be assumed to belong to the debtor - and then they challenge the debtor to prove the motor car does not belong to them!

This is - of course - utter nonsense.