Parking Eye

Re: Parking Eye

they do need planning permission for such things. I'm tempted to contact my local council and ask for their comments.

Succumb to that temptation!

Better still - find your local councillors at http://www.writetothem.com, tell them about the breach of planning law and get them to understand that it would be in the interest of the greater public good if planning permission (retrospective or otherwise) was refused.

[bluebottle]

Re: Parking Eye

thanks for reply.

what would you recommend my next course of action would be? write back asking again for the POPLA code and reiterate that they do need planning permission for such things? i'm tempted to contact my local council and ask for their comments.

in regards to the POF act 12 Section 9 angle. i think they are just inside the timeframe. even though the event occured on 31.01.2014 and they issued it 6 days later i still received it within 14 days.

so i have got either planning permission angle, extorniate charge angle or just ignore now.. what would be the best way now?

also they state when you park you enter a contract with them. i can't help thinking if i parked up, got out and read sign and decided i didnt wanna park there and left. surely i'd still be charged even though i wouldnt of agreed???

thanks again for assistance

Hi Ben,

Mystery 1 is the best person to advise you on how to deal with Parking Eye. What you need from the local authority that covers the area in which the car park is situated is a written statement - a letter is sufficient - confirming the following -

a. who owns the piece of land being used as a car park;
b. whether whoever owns that land has planning permission to use it as a car park;
c. whether Parking Eye has planning permission to operate the piece of land as a car park;
d. whether Parking has planning permission to erect signs and ANPR cameras at the piece of land;
e. at what point an offence is committed under the Town and Country Planning Act.

The above is very important as I have a sneaking suspicion the local authority will confirm PE is operating illegally from the site in question and, under such circumstances, any parking fees would be unenforceable. Notwithstanding, no-one can enter into a contract that allows either or both parties to the contract to do anything that is unlawful or illegal.

[xxbenjam]

Re: Parking Eye

Hi Ben,

I would suggest you remove the letter you have posted, redact your personal details - name and address - then post it up again.

If there was a Bullshitter of the Year (BSOTY) award, I have no doubt Parking Eye would win it or be runners-up. They are committing a breach of planning laws by erecting cameras and operating a car park without permission. Their statement that it is not illegal unless the planning authority take formal enforcement action is wrong. It is illegal the moment you erect the cameras or start using the land as a car park without planning permission. End of story.

The cases they list and crow about are predominantly undefended default judgements which have no legal bearing whatsoever. Another reason why they are such worthy candidates for BSOTY.

Hang around as someone who is well-versed in the wayward ways of Parking Eye will be along to help you.

thanks for reply.

what would you recommend my next course of action would be? write back asking again for the POPLA code and reiterate that they do need planning permission for such things? i'm tempted to contact my local council and ask for their comments.

in regards to the POF act 12 Section 9 angle. i think they are just inside the timeframe. even though the event occured on 31.01.2014 and they issued it 6 days later i still received it within 14 days.

so i have got either planning permission angle, extorniate charge angle or just ignore now.. what would be the best way now?

also they state when you park you enter a contract with them. i can't help thinking if i parked up, got out and read sign and decided i didnt wanna park there and left. surely i'd still be charged even though i wouldnt of agreed???

thanks again for assistance

[xxbenjam]

Re: Parking Eye

fixed letter xx

Please be careful about redacting personally identifiable information before uploading any documents to the internet.

thank you.

rookie mistake by me!

[Amethyst]

Re: Parking Eye

fixed letter xx

Please be careful about redacting personally identifiable information before uploading any documents to the internet.

[bluebottle]

Re: Parking Eye

Looks like our posts crossed, M1.

[bluebottle]

Re: Parking Eye

hi all,
i received a PCN on 11th January 2014 for an event that occured 31/01/2014. it was issued 05/02/2014. 6 days after the event..

from reading numerous threads on this site i have appealed with the above POF Act 12 section 9 argument and also that i noticed that they have never had any permission to erect any ANPR cameras from the local council. i also asked for a POPLA code.

they have replied stating they do not need permission and that it would only be illegal if they took formal enforcement..

they didnt comment on the POF act or give me a POPLA CODE. they then go on for a couple pages on how they've won previous cases etc .. i didnt bother to read it all

any help would be appreciated..i really don't wanna pay them

p.s i was only parked for 27 mins at 22.20 and they are charging 60gbp -100gbp if not paid etc...

Hi Ben,

I would suggest you remove the letter you have posted, redact your personal details - name and address - then post it up again.

If there was a Bullshitter of the Year (BSOTY) award, I have no doubt Parking Eye would win it or be runners-up. They are committing a breach of planning laws by erecting cameras and operating a car park without permission. Their statement that it is not illegal unless the planning authority take formal enforcement action is wrong. It is illegal the moment you erect the cameras or start using the land as a car park without planning permission. End of story.

The cases they list and crow about are predominantly undefended default judgements which have no legal bearing whatsoever. Another reason why they are such worthy candidates for BSOTY.

Hang around as someone who is well-versed in the wayward ways of Parking Eye will be along to help you.

[mystery1]

Re: Parking Eye

Your name and address are on that letter.

Can you post up what you sent them please ?

M1

[xxbenjam]

Re: Parking Eye

I just won a cancellation of a "parking charge" notice without even going anywhere near PoPla. The Parking notice arrived 3 days out of time! And I started my letter by stating I had no idea who the driver was therefore they must have sent me a notice under PoF Act 2012 Schedule 4 Section 9(1).

This then kicks in Schedule 4, Section 9 (5)! Check you have received your notice in time!!!!!! Mine was dated a Friday, and sent by second class post. For my charge to have been "valid" it would have to have been received by the day after (as that would have been the expiry of the 14 days). Section 9(6) clearly states that the notice is deemed to be received the second working day after it was posted - so Tuesday! three days later than would have been valid I pointed this out and had a letter this week saying charge cancelled due to my representations!

hi all,
i received a PCN on 11th January 2014 for an event that occured 31/01/2014. it was issued 05/02/2014. 6 days after the event..

from reading numerous threads on this site i have appealed with the above POF Act 12 section 9 argument and also that i noticed that they have never had any permission to erect any ANPR cameras from the local council. i also asked for a POPLA code.

they have replied stating they do not need permission and that it would only be illegal if they took formal enforcement..

they didnt comment on the POF act or give me a POPLA CODE. they then go on for a couple pages on how they've won previous cases etc .. i didnt bother to read it all

any help would be appreciated..i really don't wanna pay them

p.s i was only parked for 27 mins at 22.20 and they are charging 60gbp -100gbp if not paid etc...

[bluebottle]

Re: Parking Eye

If Morrisons and Parking Eye do not have planning permission to erect the ANPR cameras, until such time as planning permission is formally granted, I would argue that any ANPR evidence they have attempted to use is inadmissible. notwithstanding admissibility of ANPR images is questionable in any case.

Re: Parking Eye

However, it should be noted that the erection of the ANPR cameras requires planning permission which Morrisons have not yet sought from Torfaen County Borough Council. The Council will contact Morrisons and their agents to request the submission of a retrospective planning application for approval.

Is there any prospect of planning permission being refused and, instead, an enforcement notice being issued for the cameras to be removed?

[valleybird]

Re: Parking Eye

This may also be true of other Morrisons Stores check with your local planning department.

[valleybird]

Re: Parking Eye

It would appear that Morrison's do NOT have planning permission for the Cameras in their car park??
I would suggest that anyone who has paid the invoice that th...is company has issued should use the information below to reclaim their monies
Dear Mr Rogers

Thank you for your request for information under the Freedom of Information Act (2000) emailed to the ‘Your Call’ mailbox on 5 December 2013.

This has been forwarded to me as the Information Officer for Planning & Public Protection and it is within my remit to respond to your request within 20 working days of receipt.

Question: - “Morrison's Car Park Can you please confirm that Torfaen County Borough Council are wholly or partly responsible for the installation of Cameras in this car park (Via Planning) and can you confirm that TCBC receive an income from these cameras”.

The cameras at the Morrisons Store in Cwmbran have been erected and operate on private land. Morrisons have submitted a Car Park Management Plan entitled ‘MORRISONS STORE, GRANGE ROAD, CWMBRAN CAR PARK MANAGEMENT PLAN, WM MORRISON SUPERMARKETS PLC 4th March 2013’ (which is a requirement of the signed Section 106 Agreement), which is yet to be approved by the Council (and as a publically available document it is available on request). The Car Park Management Plan states that ‘parking within the Morrisons car park is monitored by an Automated Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) system installed by Parking Eye Ltd. ANPR cameras installed at the entrance to the car park capture the number plates of vehicles entering and exiting the car park and then the system assesses if vehicles have exceeded the time limit’. The cameras were installed as part of the development of the store.

Torfaen County Borough Council does not receive any income from any fine issued against any vehicle that exceeds the time limit for staying in the Morrisons car park.

However, it should be noted that the erection of the ANPR cameras requires planning permission which Morrisons have not yet sought from Torfaen County Borough Council. The Council will contact Morrisons and their agents to request the submission of a retrospective planning application for approval.

I hope the information provided within this correspondence is satisfactory to the request you have made. If you have any queries about this letter or are unhappy about the service you have received in relation to your request and wish to make a complaint or request a review, please do not hesitate to contact me in writing.
If you are not content with the outcome of your complaint, you may apply directly to the Information Commissioner for a decision. Generally, the Information Commissioner’s Office (Wales) cannot make a decision unless you have exhausted the complaints procedure provided by this Council. The Information Commissioner can be contacted at: The Information Commissioner’s Office (Wales), 2nd Floor, Churchill House, Churchill Way, Cardiff CF10 2HH, Telephone 029 2067 8400 or Fax 029 2067 8399 or e-mail _ HYPERLINK "mailto:Wales@ico.gsi.gov.uk" __Wales@ico.gsi.gov.uk_.

[kamm]

Re: Parking Eye

Hi just wonderd if you had to go to court with your parking charge or is leaving it alone the correct way forward. Thanks

[DivideByZero]

Re: Parking Eye

Thanks M1, Bluebottle, Ostell and everyone else here! I have had notice that the charge has been cancelled.

Had I listened to the daft bat at The Range I spoke to first time I would have probably been getting ready to submit a POPLA appeal right about now. But luckily I had you guys to steer me right and managed to speak with a really helpful guy in The Range.

I have spent about 15 hours researching the law, rules and examples of parking charges such as this and I can safely say I understand a lot better about where I stand now.

I also now know I need to look 8 foot up lamp posts for parking information that is hidden out of plain sight!

Thanks again for all your assistance - it has been an eye opener.

Divide By Zero