PCM Parking Charge Notice

[bobosh13]

Hi all,

Got a ticket from PCM for my vehicle being parked in a Resident Permit holder area of the block of flats. The driver was delivering some items to a flat in the block and by the time they came back out there was a ticket on the windscreen.

As the registered keeper of the vehicle, I appealed the ticket saying the driver was not given enough time to display the permit, as they had gone to the flat to get the permit from the owner.

The photos they have taken as evidence have about 6 minutes from the first photo taken to the last one.

Appeal was refused by PCM saying I have not identified the driver.

Attaching redacted pictures.

I remember there was a time when we could appeal through POPLA. I have reappealed saying I don't have to identify the driver and explained that the driver wasn't given enough time.

Please could someone advise what the best course of action here is?

[des8]

If it was I, and assuming I was the registered keeper, I would await the Notice to Keeper and not communicate with them at all until that time.
As Keeper you will be able to appeal, and when that appeal is declined you can appeal to the not so independent IAS.
Following that you may defend a court claim, which doubtlessly will be on basis of breach of contract.
However there does not appear to be an offer to contract within that signage, so you probably have a good chance of winning.

When you receive the NTK post it up if you want advice.
Whatever you do, do not identify the driver

[bobosh13]

If it was I, and assuming I was the registered keeper, I would await the Notice to Keeper and not communicate with them at all until that time.
As Keeper you will be able to appeal, and when that appeal is declined you can appeal to the not so independent IAS.
Following that you may defend a court claim, which doubtlessly will be on basis of breach of contract.
However there does not appear to be an offer to contract within that signage, so you probably have a good chance of winning.

When you receive the NTK post it up if you want advice.
Whatever you do, do not identify the driver

Thanks for the advice. Will wait for the NTK. Not quite sure what it means when you say "... defend a court claim, ...on basis of breach of contract." - who is breaching the contract? What contract . Sorry if I am being a bit thick here.

[des8]

DCB Legal standard court claim is that a parking charge became due as the driver breached the contract as written on the signs.
Usually one goes to a car park and there is a notice saying how much or free for a period as well as other terms and conditions e.g. park only in the marked bays.
In those cases there is an offer for the driver to park, and by parking the driver agrees to the terms i.e. a contract

In your case I see no offer to park, so there is no contract.
If any charge is being made it must be a penalty for trespass, and that is not something that the parking company can levy.
Only the occupier of land can sue for trespass, and then only for damages

[bobosh13]

Thanks for the advice. Will wait for the NTK. Not quite sure what it means when you say "... defend a court claim, ...on basis of breach of contract." - who is breaching the contract? What contract . Sorry if I am being a bit thick here.

Oh wow! Thanks, this makes a lot of sense now.

[Stevo77]

Got a letter off parking eye dated 14 2 23 stating that I was parked on Asda car park for 9 hours when I had been to Asda twice that day and they’re are cameras on the car park to and now they are asking me to pay 140 and I don’t want to pay as I have not done anything wrong

[Stevo77]

Please could someone give me some advice thank you

[des8]

@stev077

Please start your own thread, and do not identify the driver when posting on here. Just say "the driver did this or that"

[bobosh13]

Hi all,

Got a ticket from PCM for my vehicle being parked in a Resident Permit holder area of the block of flats. The driver was delivering some items to a flat in the block and by the time they came back out there was a ticket on the windscreen.

As the registered keeper of the vehicle, I appealed the ticket saying the driver was not given enough time to display the permit, as they had gone to the flat to get the permit from the owner.

The photos they have taken as evidence have about 6 minutes from the first photo taken to the last one.

Appeal was refused by PCM saying I have not identified the driver.

Attaching redacted pictures.

I remember there was a time when we could appeal through POPLA. I have reappealed saying I don't have to identify the driver and explained that the driver wasn't given enough time.

Please could someone advise what the best course of action here is?

Hi guys,

Got the NTK now. See attached.
Please could you advise on what basis do I appeal? What are the next steps please?

Many thanks in advance.

[bobosh13]

If it was I, and assuming I was the registered keeper, I would await the Notice to Keeper and not communicate with them at all until that time.
As Keeper you will be able to appeal, and when that appeal is declined you can appeal to the not so independent IAS.
Following that you may defend a court claim, which doubtlessly will be on basis of breach of contract.
However there does not appear to be an offer to contract within that signage, so you probably have a good chance of winning.

When you receive the NTK post it up if you want advice.
Whatever you do, do not identify the driver

Hi DES8 please could you let me know what the next steps are for me please?

[des8]

So you now write to them:



Dear Sirs,
I have received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to specify the period of parking to which this notice applies as prescribed by section 9 (2) (e) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.
Yours etc

Send first class mail with free certificate of posting from post office

[bobosh13]

So you now write to them:



Dear Sirs,
I have received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to specify the period of parking to which this notice applies as prescribed by section 9 (2) (e) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.
Yours etc

Send first class mail with free certificate of posting from post office

Thank you.

[bobosh13]

So you now write to them:



Dear Sirs,
I have received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to specify the period of parking to which this notice applies as prescribed by section 9 (2) (e) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.
Yours etc

Send first class mail with free certificate of posting from post office

Hi DES8,

Have received a response from them, attaching FYI.

Please could you advise what I can do next?

Do I appeal to IAS and what should I say?

[des8]

Not surprised as accepting an appeal does not swell their coffers.
Also note they do not comment on the non compliance of the NTK with POFA 2012 sch4 Sec 9 (2) (e) but wrongly assert "the conditions of the Act have been satisfied".

You have the choice of paying up, or appealing to the non independent appeals panel (IAS) who will almost certainly find in favour of the parking company.

You then have the choice of paying up, or awaiting a barrage of letters from debt collectors and then a court claim.

IMO you have good arguments which should enable you to win if it ever gets to court (but County court can be a bit of a lottery.
Sometimes these companies take it to the wire and discontinue the claim at the last minute

I would not pay them, but it is entirely your choice.

[bobosh13]

Not surprised as accepting an appeal does not swell their coffers.
Also note they do not comment on the non compliance of the NTK with POFA 2012 sch4 Sec 9 (2) (e) but wrongly assert "the conditions of the Act have been satisfied".

You have the choice of paying up, or appealing to the non independent appeals panel (IAS) who will almost certainly find in favour of the parking company.

You then have the choice of paying up, or awaiting a barrage of letters from debt collectors and then a court claim.

IMO you have good arguments which should enable you to win if it ever gets to court (but County court can be a bit of a lottery.
Sometimes these companies take it to the wire and discontinue the claim at the last minute

I would not pay them, but it is entirely your choice.

Thank you. Is there any chance you could help me with the commentary on what to say in my appeal please.
I know it's asking too much probably. I'd rather not pay, as now it's a matter of principle, but I am struggling on what points to raise in my appeal.

Thanks a lot in advance.