Debt recovery plus letter for unpaid parking charge notice that we never received

[superfr]

Contradiction between APCOA Parking Ireland Ltd in the declaration & return address APCOA Parking UK Ltd

I saw this as well. maybe i should delete/cross Ireland and write UK instead .

[superfr]

They are entitled to ask for proof of identity (not sure how birth certificate provides that!) so if you want a copy of the details they hold .........

Thank you. Just to get it right- this is just for them to send me the original penalty notice that was never sent to me?

[des8]

A SAR covers all information about you and how it has been processed, so there may be more than just a PCN.
They will probably state the PCN was sent

.There is yet another error on their form you may wish to correct viz your right to information is under the 2021UK GDPR, not the 2018 EU GDPR

[superfr]

They are entitled to ask for proof of identity (not sure how birth certificate provides that!) so if you want a copy of the details they hold .........

UPDATE!
I finally received today the details from Apcoa.
So The alleged parking offence was on 19/12/22 and the date of the notice sent to me now by the DPO is 12/12/22!

What is my next step?
Today i also received another letter from Debr Recovery Plus" - notice of intended court action .

Advise for next step will be appreciated.

Thanks

[des8]

Could you post up a suitably redacted copy of the PCN, leaving all dates visible, please?

Sending PCN in advance of the incident obviously means they are clairvoyant, so they should realise you won't be paying

[charitynjw]

UPDATE!

Today i also received another letter from Debr Recovery Plus" - notice of intended court action .

Advise for next step will be appreciated.

Thanks

File & ignore.....all bark, no bite.

[superfr]

Could you post up a suitably redacted copy of the PCN, leaving all dates visible, please?

Sending PCN in advance of the incident obviously means they are clairvoyant, so they should realise you won't be paying

Gosh sorry , I just realised my error/typo .. I was typing in a rush .
Date of issue of the notice 12/12/22 . Date of the parking 19/11/22
As far as i know the If you didn't get a notice at the time you parked, you must receive a notice within 14 days of when you parked.
And although i never received the notice at all prior to the DRP letter recently , it looks like it tool them longer than 14 days to issue the notice that they never sent. so do i need to appealnow?

i attached redacted copy

Thank you

[des8]

So this is nothing to do with PoFA 2012, but the bylaws.

Firstly is the signage in that station carpark prominently displayed, i.e. would a person rushing to catch a train easily see it?

[charitynjw]

So this is nothing to do with PoFA 2012, but the bylaws.
Firstly is the signage in that station carpark prominently displayed, i.e. would a person rushing to catch a train easily see it?

Hi des8

I thought that fines needed to state the legislation which applies?

Something like

Made under section 219 of the Transport Act 2000 by the Strategic Rail Authority (the “authority”) and confirmed under schedule 20 of the Transport Act 2000 by the Secretary of State for Transport on 22 June 2005 for regulating the use and working of, and travel on or by means of, railway assets, the maintenance of order on railway assets and the conduct of all persons while on railway assets (the “byelaws”).

Railway Byelaws
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ailway-byelaws

24.Enforcement
(1)Offence and level of fines
Any person who breaches any of these Byelaws commits an offence and,
with the exception of Byelaw 17,may be liable for each such offence to a
penalty not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

Offence committed on or after 1 October 1992
Level on the scale - 3
£1,000

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga...17/section/122

122The standard scale of fines for summary offences

(1)The standard scale of fines for summary offences, which is known as “the standard scale”, as it has effect for Code offences, is as follows........

Is this on the right track?

(Sorry )

[superfr]

So this is nothing to do with PoFA 2012, but the bylaws.

Firstly is the signage in that station carpark prominently displayed, i.e. would a person rushing to catch a train easily see it?

Thank you .
I am not sure if I understand regarding "bylaws".
I don't remember exactly how the signage is at this car park but i assume they have signage there .

Cant i appeal about the fact that the notice was issued nearly a month after the parking date ? although i read somewhere that if its not written ‘Protection of Freedoms Act’, so they actually have no time limit to send it .... and they actually never sent it

[superfr]

Thank you .
I am not sure if I understand regarding "bylaws".
I don't remember exactly how the signage is at this car park but i assume they have signage there .

Cant i appeal about the fact that the notice was issued nearly a month after the parking date ? although i read somewhere that if its not written ‘Protection of Freedoms Act’, so they actually have no time limit to send it .... and they actually never sent it

So what can i do in this case ? any help will be apricated. We don't want to go to court and defiantly dont want to pay £170 .
Can I or Should I appeal based on the fact the notice was issue d more than 14 days after the parking date? and on the fact they didn't send notice at all?

will this kind of letter be helpful??? :
Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc

Thank you

[charitynjw]

So what can i do in this case ? any help will be apricated. We don't want to go to court and defiantly dont want to pay £170 .
Can I or Should I appeal based on the fact the notice was issue d more than 14 days after the parking date? and on the fact they didn't send notice at all?

will this kind of letter be helpful??? :
Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc

Thank you

Maybe.
It depends on whether or not a windscreen private parking pcn (aka Notice to Driver) was affixed to the vehicle or handed to the driver.
And whether the vehicle is/was a hire vehicle, or a lease/HP one, or it is a company vehicle.
And whether or not you are domiciled in England or Wales.
If it were me I wouldn't, as obviously none of this sidelines the byelaw issue, or the fact that it is for a penalty charge..

[des8]

PoFA 2012 does not apply to this charge, so the time limits are irrelevant.
Any court action to enforce the charge is via the Magistrates Court, and Apcoa have 6 months in which to lay information. and a summons to be issued

Defence isn't easy and your best argument might be the signage.
The bylaws require signs to be "displayed".
This means the signs need to be prominent enough to be seen by people hurrying to catch a train, so not hidden in a corner.
Obtain photographs of entrance signs and signs within the car park

Other arguments will need to be considered if a summons is ever issued, but none of them are "easy"

On the plus side I can't find evidence of Apcoa going down that route.
Some train companies did, but they found it expensive even when they won, so now they don't!

As charitynjw I would sit back, ignore any debt collectors and see what , if anything, develops........... but entirely your decision

[superfr]

Maybe.
It depends on whether or not a windscreen private parking pcn (aka Notice to Driver) was affixed to the vehicle or handed to the driver. - No pcn was affixed or Handed . No pcn was sent by post either!
And whether the vehicle is/was a hire vehicle, or a lease/HP one, or it is a company vehicle. - its Private Vehicle
And whether or not you are domiciled in England or Wales. - Domicile in england
If it were me I wouldn't, as obviously none of this sidelines the byelaw issue, or the fact that it is for a penalty charge..

Thanks

[charitynjw]

Thanks

If this was a private parking charge matter, I could give you an idea of what to do.
But it isn't, so I won't.